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Author: 

Philadelphia.  Councils. 
Railroad  Committee. 

Title: 

The  trolley  system 

Place: 

Philadelphia 

Date: 

1892 


MASTER  NEGATIVE  # 


COLUMBIA  UNIVERSITY  LIBRARIES 
PRESERVATION  DIVISION 

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Philadelphia.    Councils.    Railroad  connittee. 

The  trolley  systenu    Stenographic  report  of 
testlmonQr  of  experts  and  arguments  of  Rufas 
Shapley  and  Jolm  6*  Johnson  before  Railroad 
cooHittee  of  Councils,  Mar.  14th  ani  Mbo*.  16th, 
1B92.    Philadeljihia,  Allen,  Lane  &  Scott's 
print,  house,  1892. 

146  p« 


1.  street-railroads  -  Philadelphia.  2.  Phila- 
delphia  -  Rapid  transit. 


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The  Trolley  SystenL 


STENOGRAPHIC  REPORT 


OF 


TESTIMONY  OF  EXPERTS 


AND 


ARGUMENTS 


OF 


AND 


JOHN  G.JOHNSON,  Ksq., 

Before  Railroad  Committee  of  Councils,  Monday,  March 
i4th»  and  Wednesday,  March  iGth,  1892. 


PHILADBI.PmA: 
Ai^i^BN,  Lanb  &  ^cott's  Printing  Housb, 
229-231-233'^uth  Fifth  Street.  ,  ' 
1892. 


intiieCttpofllotilloik 


THE  LIBRARIES 


SCHOOL  OF  BUSINESS 


The  Trolley  System 


STENOGRAPHIC  REPORT 

OF 

TESTIMONY  OF  EXPERTS 

AMD 

ARGUMENTS 

OF 

RUFUS  E.  SHAPLEY,  Esq., 

AND 

JOHN  G.  JOHNSON,  Esq., 

Before  Railroad  Committee  of  Councils,  Monday,  March 
14th,  and  Wednesday,  March  i6th,  189a. 


ALLEN,  ULVTBA  PRIfftlNG  HOUSE, 


•  •  • 


INDEX. 


PAGE. 


TBsipfONY  OF  Experts   j 

2.  Lbttbrs  from  Mayors,  Heads  of  Departments,  Insur- 

ance Brokers  (and  others),  of  cities  where  Trolley 
System  is  in  actual  operation  95 

3.  Argument  of  Rufus  E.  Shapley,  Esq  107 

4.  Argument  of  John  G.  Johnson,  Esq   121 

5.  List  of  over  two  hundred  cities  and  large  towns  in 

WHICH  Trolley  System  is  in  actual  operation,  showing 
names,  street-railway  companies,  number  of  electric 

CARS  used,  and  mileage  OF  EACH  140 


t  t  '  € 


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MEETING  OF  THE  COUNCILS  COMMITTEE 


In  the  Matter  of  the  Application  of  the  Philadelphia 
Traction  Company  to  Apply  the  Trolley  System, 


TESTIMONY  OF  MR.  HAYNES,  MAYOR  OF 

NEWARK. 

Monday,  March  14th,  1892,  2  P.  M. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  Will  you  please  state  your  experience  with  the  trolley 
system  ? 

A.  We  have  over  three  hundred  thousand  inhabitants,  with 

a  number  of  streets  eight  rods  in  width,  twenty-feet  side- 
walks on  either  side  of  the  street,  and  ninety-two  feet  from 
curb  to  curb.  They  talked  of  an  electric  road  in  such  a  way 
that  caused  me  a  great  deal  of  anxiety.  At  my  own  expense 
I  have  visited  a||||p|ber  of  cities  where  these  roads  are  in 
operation.  Four  years  zigo  I  was  in  Richmond.  I  visited 
Boston,  Pittsburgh,  Rochester,  and  Chicago,  where  they  have 
a  different  system — where  they  have  the  cable  system.  They 
talked  about  rapid  transit.  Rapid  transit  there  means  going 
fast  around  the  comer  on  the  main  street,  and  I  think  the 
record  has  been  there  that  they  killed  about  one  man  a  week 
for  the  past  year.  That  is  in  Chicago,  with  the  cable  system, 
not  with  the  electric.  Everything  that  has  been  said  by  the 
mayor  of  Boston  I  can  vouch  for  by  my  personal  knowledge. 
I  went  there,  not  under  the  guidance  of  the  electric  people, 
but  simply  to  ride  over  the  road.    There  was  a  portion  of 

(3) 


4 


that  road,  not  any  part  that  was  run  by  the  undei^ound  sys- 
tem— the  slot — the  conduit  underneath.  When  they  reached 
about  the  Albany  and  Boston  Depot  they  come  into  opera- 
tion and  run  through  a  built-up  portion  of  the  city.  That 
was  abandoned.  There  were  blockades  about  as  frequently 
as  you  find  in  your  own  road  here  when  a  cable  has  broken  a 
strand  and  you  are  obliged  to  stop.  I  have  seen,  on  some 
visits  here,  where  there  would  be  two  or  three  blocks  of  cars 
stopped.  The  overhead  system  is  run  on  the  outskirts  of  the 
city  at  about  fifteen  or  twenty  miles  an  hour.  Here  is  an 
answer  to  a  set  of  questions  that  we  sent  to  the  mayor  of 
Rochester  and  he  was  requested  to  answer  them,  and  I  give 
them  just  exactly  as  he  has  answered  them.  I  will  ask  the 
clerk  to  read  them. 

Q.  Would  the  people  of  Rochester  revoke  the  trolley 
franchise  and  revert  to  horse-cars  ? 

A.  No. 

Mr.  Haynes  : — I  would  answer  the  same  as  to  Newark. 

Q.    Has  property  adjacent  to  overhead  electric  roads  de- 
preciated in  value  ? 
A.  No. 

Mr.  Haynes  : — I  would  answer  the  same  as  to  Newark. 
Q.  Does  the  fire  department  encounter  obstacles  in  its 
work? 

A.  Not  often ;  the  wires  being  in  the  centre  of  the  street. 
Mr.  Haynes: — I  would  answer  the  same  as  to  Newark. 
Q.  Have  there  been  any  deaths  due  directly  to  the  over- 
head wires  ? 
A.  No. 

Mr.  Haynes  : — I  would  answer  the  same  as  to  Newark. 

Mr.  Haynes: — There  has  been  no  loss  of  human  life. 
Horses  have  been  killed. 
By  Mr.  Shapley: 
Q.  How  many  in  Newark  ? 

A.  Very  few.    1  have  not  a  copy  of  the  record.  There 

was  one  killed  the  last  snow  storm,  where  one  of  the  wires 
fell  and  killed  a  horse. 

Q.  How  many  miles  of  the  trolley  system  have  you  in 
Newark — about  twenty,  are  there  not  ? 


5 


A.  I  think  Springfield  Avenue  has  four  miles  double  track. 
I  think  the  rapid  tracks  has  about  eight  miles,  and  now,  re- 
cently, we  have  opened  another  from  the  city  of  Orange  to 
Market  Street  Depot. 

Q.  That  is  about  twenty-four  miles  ? 

A.  I  think  it  is  about  that — double  track. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  had  the  trolley  in  Newark? 

A.  Over  two  years. 

Q.  You  say  there  has  been  no  person  killed  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Any  fires  caused  by  it  ? 

A.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  Any  increase  in  the  rate  of  insurance  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Any  depreciation  in  the  value  of  property  ? 
A.  An  increase,  on  the  contrary. 

Q.  Has  it  been  proved  a  failure  in  the  estimation  of  the 
bulk  of  the  people  at  Newark  ? 

A.  No,  sir.  They  are  clamoring  for  more. 
Q.  Would  they  turn  it  out  if  they  could  ? 

A.  No,  sir.    You  would  have  an  insurrection.    I  would 
not  like  to  sign  an  ordinance  to  repeal  it. 
By  Mr.  Lockwood  : 

Q.  Those  horses  were  killed  by  the  electric  wire  ? 
A«  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  would  have  been  the  result  if  an  individual  had 
been  there  ? 

A.  I  have  heard  parties  say  they  have  taken  the  whole 
force.  They  informed  me  they  have  taken  hold  of  five  hun- 
dred voltage. 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  What  are  the  names  of  the  streets  upon  which  this  sys- 
tem exists  in  Newark  ? 

A.  From  the  Pennsylvania  Railroad  Depot  at  Market 
Street  through  to  Irvington,  about  four  miles.  This  passes 
through  Market  Street  with  the  poles  standing  in  the  centre. 

Q.  What  is  the  width  of  Market  Street  where  these  wires 
run  ? 


6 


A.  I  judge  from  curb  to  curb ;  it  was  originally  laid  out 
the  same  as  Broad  Street,  but  there  has  been  encroachments, 
which  would  reduce  it  to  the  neighborhood  of  eighty  feet 
•  Q.  In  other  words,  the  street  is  about  eighty  feet  wide  ? 

A.  Market  Street? 

Q.  Yes. 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  other  streets  are  there  ? 

A.  Washington  Street,  I -think,  is  four  yards  wide. 

Q.  How  many  feet  wide  is  that  ? 

A.  About  sixty-six  feet. 

Q.  From  Orange  how  wide  is  it  ? 

A.  Through  Central  i\venue — it  would  be  about  the  same — 
a  little  wider  than  Market  Street. 
Q.  Something  over  eighty  feet  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  or  about  eighty  feet. 

Q.  Did  you  say  that,  in  your  judgment,  the  same  rules 
would  apply  to  put  such  a  system  in  a  street  which,  from 
curb  to  curb,  was  only  twenty-seven  feet  wide,  that  would 
apply  to  a  street  that  was  eighty  feet  wide  ? 

A.  You  would  be  obliged  to  use  the  same  system,  but  this 
must  have  the  poles  that  have  been  spoken  of  on  the  side- 
walk. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  would  be  equally  desirable  to  have  it 
in  a  street  that  was  twenty-five  feet  wide  from  curb  to  curb 
as  in  one  that  was  eighty  feet  wide  ? 

A.  No.  There  in  the  eighty-foot  street  you  would  have 
two  tracks — two  tracks  on  the  wide  street. 

Q.  Would  you  advise,  if  you  were  a  citizen  of  Philadel- 
phia, with  your  experience  in  Newark,  the  placing  of  that 
system  in  streets  that  are  twenty-five  feet  wide  from  curb 
to  curb  ? 

A.  If  you  wish  rapid  transit. 

Q.  Tell  me  whether,  in  your  judgment,  you  would  advise 
that  or  not  ? 

A.  I  would  advise  it  over  anything  I  know  of  at  present. 
I  would  advise  the  electric  method  of  propelling  cars  where 
you  have  but  a  single  track. 


7 


Q.  Would  you  advise,  in  your  judgment,  as  a  citizen,  the 
adoption  of  such  a  system  where  the  streets  were  only  twenty- 
five  to  twenty-seven  feet  wide  ? 

A.  You  have  only  one  track. 

Q.  Can  you  answer  my  question  ? 

A.  I  would  advise  it  where  you  have  one  track.  I  would 
recommend  where  you  have  one  track. 

Q.  You  speak  of  obtaining  rapid  transit.  Do  you  believe 
that  in  a  stfcct  which  is  only  twenty-five  to  twenty-seven 
feet  from  curb  to  curb  that  you  could  obtain  more  rapid 
transit  than  about  six  miles  an  hour  with  safety  to  the  citi- 
zens? 

A.  That  question  was  raised  when  we  first  attempted  to 
propel  cars  by  electricity.  The  horses  were  to  be  frightened. 
There  is  not  a  horse  at  present  that  I  have  seen  after  a  few 
months  that  has  paid  any  more  attention  to  it  than  they  did 
to  the  horse-cars.  If  you  are  to  have  rapid  transit  without 
some  disadvantages,^you  will  never  get  it.  I  have  been  wait- 
ing for  that  good  time.  I  waited  four  years  to  see  if  it  was 
not  practicable  to  obtain  cars  that  would  be  run  by  the  stor- 
age battery.  That  was  my  object  in  going  to  Boston,  going 
to  Richmond,  to  Pittsburgh,  Rochester,  Albany— different 
places— to  see  if  it  was  not  possible  to  secure  something  by 
which  cars  could  be  propelled  without  being  obliged  to  use 
the  trolley  S3^tem,  and  I  found  nothing. 

Q.  Don't  you  believe  you  could  have  much  more  rapid 
transit  in  a  street  eighty  feet  wide  with  safety  to  the  citizens 
than  you  could  get  in  a  street  twenty-five  feet  wide  from  curb 
to  curb  ? 

A.  If  you  were  to  put  one  track  on  our  streets  it  would  be 
just  as  safe  where  you  have  two  tracks. 

Q.  You  think  it  would  be  safe  to  run  in  a  city  built  up  like 
ours  is,  on  Chestnut  Street,  at  a  greater  rate  than  six  miles  an 
hour  with  safety  to  the  citizens  ? 

A.  I  cannot  say  how  many  teams  you  would  have,  but  you 
-cannot  surpass  Market  Street  in  Newark. 

Q.  You  have  in  Market  Street  a  street  eighty  feet  wide, 
and  have  drive-ways  on  either  side  ? 


8 


A.  Yes,  sir ;  with  the  poles  in  the  middle. 

Q.  Could  3?ou  go  with  safety  in  a  street  like  Chestnut 
Street  any  faster  than  six  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  If  you  got  along  at  six  miles  an  hour  I  think  you  will 
improve  the  transit  very  much  here. 

Q.  I  am  not  one  of  those  persons  who  find  very  much 
fault  with  the  rapidity  of  the  present  systems,  because  I  have 
seen  the  difficulties  which  they  have  to  contend  with.  What 
I  want  to  get  you  to  state  is  whether  you  think  it  would  be 
possible  to  introduce  any  system — cable-cars,  under-ground 
electric  wires,  over-head  wires,  or  any  system  which,  in  a 
street  no  wider  than  Chestnut  Street,  built  up  as  that  is,, 
which  would  be  safe  to  run  faster  than  six  miles  an  hour. 
That  is  what  I  want  you  to  answer. 

A.  That  is  fast  enough  in  the  settled  portions  of  the  city. 
But  remember  that  we  are  connected  with  a  number  of  cities 
outside  of  our  present  limits  that  are  built  up,  and  the  cars, 
are  running  to-day  from  Orange  to  the  Market  Street  Depot  at 
double  the  speed  that  the  horses  ran  before  it.  I  think  they 
are  running  at  the  rate  of  fifteen  to  eighteen  miles  an  hour„ 
and  you  hear  no  complaints  from  the  people. 

Q.  Is  not  that  through  a  r^ion  not  dense  with  buildings  ^ 

A.  Through  our  suburbs. 

Q.  I  am  not  dealing  with  them.  I  want  you  to  give  your 
opinion,  as  a  man  of  business,  as  a  man  of  experience,  as  a 
man  who  has  devoted  attention  to  this  subject,  as  a  man  who 
occupies,  as  I  understand,  a  most  responsible  position,  I  want, 
you  to  give  your  opinion  as  to  whether  you  believe  that  oa 
Chestnut  Street  it  would  be  safe  to  have  more  rapid  transit 
of  any  kind  ? 

Mr.  ShapleY: — It  is  not  proposed  to  put  it  on  Chestnut 
Street. 

Mr.  Bullitt:— I  apply  that  question  to  the  built-up  por- 
tion of  Spruce  Street. 

The  Witness  : — Six  miles  an  hour  is  as  much  as  you  de- 
sire, at  first,  for  the  cars  to  run. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  would  be,  at  any  time,  safe  to  rur> 
through  the  built-up  portions  of  a  city  like  Philadelphia,  upoa 


a  street  no  wider  than  Spruce  Street,  at  a  greater  rate  than 

six  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  I  am  convinced  from  what  I  have  seen  that  those  cars 
are  under  more  control,  in  many  cases,  than  the  horse-cars. 
It  can  be  started  and  stopped  sooner  than  the  majority  of 
horse-cars  running  in  your  streets,  or  in  any  other,  if  necessary. 
There  is  one  thing  more,  perhaps,  that  I  might  say.  I  believe 
your  city  has  many  streets  which,  from  curb  to  curb,  admit  of 
only  one  track.  We  have  a  different  system  there.  We  have 
the  double  tracks.  I  have  been  a  great  sticker  upon  one 
matter.  As  they  were  holding  those  high  at  first,  without 
any  compensation  to  the  city  whatever,  they  were  permitted 
to  put  them  down,  and  the  ordinance  provided  that  they 
should  remove  them  from  the  streets  on  thirty  days'  notice. 
I  do  not  know  of  a  man  in  the  city  of  Newark  who  would 
dare  to  stand  up  and  advocate  at  the  present  time  that  those 
tracks  should  be  removed  from  the  streets,  and  certainly  I 
would  not  sign  an  ordinance  calling  upon  them  to  do  it,  be- 
cause we  see  what  the  advantage  is  in  securing  the  means  of 
rapid  transit  from  one  portion  of  the  city  to  the  other.  They 
are  the  poor  man's  carriages,  and  formerly  those  who  rode  in 
their  carriages  now  use  the  street-cars  instead. 

By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  How  far  is  Market  Street  from  curb  to  curb — ^not  from 
building  to  building  ? 

A.  I  should  judge  in  the  neighborhood  of  fifty  feet. 

Q.  And  there  are  two  tracks  on  Market  Street  ? 

A.  Double  tracks. 

Q.  It  is  your  principal  street  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  running  at  right  angles  to  Broad. 

Q.  It  is  a  crowded  thoroughfare  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Springfield  Avenue  is  a  wide  street,  is  it  not  ? 
A.  It  is  a  street  upon  which  they  run  a  double  track. 
Q.  How  wide  is  Central  Avenue  ? 
A.  It  is  about  as  wide  as  Springfield. 

Q.  I  didn't  hear  the  width  of  Springfield  Avenue  ? 
A.  I  should  judge  it  was,  from  curb  to  curb — there  is  a 
double  track  on  the  street. 


lO 

Q.  About  thirty-five  feet  ? 

A.  I  couldn't  say  that. 

Q.  It  has  two  tracks,  has  it  ? 

A.  Two  tracks. 

Q.  It  is  not  as  much  as  forty  feet  wide,  is  it  ? 

A.  I  couldn't  say.  If  you  will  come  to  Newark  we  will 
make  the  measurement,  and  then  I  can  tell  the  actual  work- 
ing of  the  S3^tem  better.  I  have  not  a  cent  of  interest  in  the 
road.  I  have  accepted  nothing  at  all  from  the  electric  rail- 
road people.  I  have  been  to  see  different  places  to  try  and 
see  if  we  couldn't  get  something  to  avoid  this  bickering.  I 
am  sorry  to  say  that  I  found  nothing,  and  in  the  conven- 
tion that  was  held  at  Pittsburgh  the  actual  number  of  houses 
that  were  using  this  overhead  or  trolley  system  was  named, 
and  the  number  of  cars  also  named,  and  no  other  system  of 
compressed  air  or  of  storage  battery  that  was  running  in  a 
single  city  at  a  profit.  On  Fourth  Avenue,  in  New  York, 
the  cars  were  withdrawn.  Not  a  single  one  is  running  in  the 
city  of  New  York  at  the  present  time.  I  cannot  find  a  case 
where  there  is  a  storage  battery  system,  for  that  is  the  system 
that  I  have  been  looking  for.  I  cannot  find  a  single  place  in 
the  United  States  where  they  are  running  with  success. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  mayor  of  Newark  ? 

A.  Eight  years  on  the  9th.    I  have  another  year  to  serve. 

By  Mr.  Lockwood  : 

Q.  Is  there  any  consideration  paid  for  the  use  of  the 

streets  for  any  purpose — for  beautif)nng  them  ? 
A.  I  have  got  five  per  cent,  of  their  gross  receipts. 
Q.  Have  you  been  to  the  city  of  Baltimore  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 
By  Mr.  Bullitt: 

Q.  I  understand  you  to  say  that  on  some  systenii  lfi  Boston, 
according  to  your  information,  there  had  been  no  loss  of  life? 

A.  I  know  of  no  human  life. 

Q  Do  you  know  the  West  End  system  ? 

A.  From  the  New  Jerusalem  ?  I  think  that  runs  along  the 
new  public  library  and  Philips  Brooks'  church,  but  they  have 
abandoned  that. 


II 


Q.  They  have  abandoned  what  ? 

A.  The  slot  which  was  in  the  street  connected  with  the 
wire. 

Q.  That  is  now  operated  by  an  overhead  trolley  wire  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  to  apply  your  remark  to  that  road  as 
well  as  others  ? 

A.  I  have  been  all  over  the  roads  in  Boston. 

Q.  If  I  were  to  tell  you  that  the  official  report  made,  end- 
ing September  30th,  1891,  shows  that  they  killed  fifteen  per- 
sons in  the  previous  year  and  injured  two  hundred  and  thirty- 
nine,  would  that  be  consistent  with  the  opinion  you  have  heard 
about  it  ? 

A.  That  is  something  I  certainly  never  have  heard.  What 
was  it  from  ?    Electricity  or  what  ? 

Q.  I  am  informed  by  Mr.  Constable  that  an  examination 
of  the  official  report  shows  that  the  number  of  persons  killed 
and  injured  on  that  road  amounted  to  fifteen  killed  and  two 
hundred  and  thirty-nine  injured,  during  the  year  preceding 
September  30th,  1 89 1. 

Mr.  Constable  : — The  Massachusetts  Railroad  Commis- 
sionets  have  that  report  on  record.  I  am  now  employed  to 
examine  these  various  schemes,  and  in  Boston  the  report  now 
is  two  employes,  ending  with  the  thirtieth  day  of  September, 
1 89 1 — two  employes,  three  passengers,  and  ten  people  out- 
side of  them.  The  balance,  making  two  hundred  and  fifty- 
four,  were  casual,  some  of  them,  and  others  serious. 

Mr.  Haynes  : — How  many  people  were  injured  on  the 
horse-cars  in  the  city  of  Philadelphia  during  the  past  year  ? 

Mr.  Constable  : — I  have  stated  a  matter  which  is  on  rec- 
ord. I  certainly  can  get  from  the  record  the  statement  that 
you  desire.  I  am  giving  my  statement  from  the  record,  and 
not  from  hearsay. 

Mr.  Shapley: — ^You  say  that  the  official  records  show 
that  two  workmen,  three  passengers,  and  ten  other  people 
were  killed  ? 

Mr.  Constable  : — Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Shapley  :— Killed  by  what  ? 


la 

Mr.  Constable  :— That  is  their  record— by  that  road— 
and  that  is  an  electric  road. 

Mr.  Shapley  :— Do  you  mean  to  stand  up  here  and  state, 
or  do  you  want  the  people  to  understand  you  as  saying,  that 
those  people  were  killed  by  the  electric  current  ? 

Mr.  Constable  :— By  the  West  End  Railroad. 

Mr.  Shapley  : — Answer  the  question  ;  was  it  by  the  elec-- 
trie  current  coming  into  contact  with  the  body  ? 

Mr.  Constable  :~I  wasn't  there  personally  and  saw  it 

Mr.  Shapley  : — I  want  to  know  what  you  mean.  Do 
you  mean  to  tell  me  that  that  report  shows  those  people  were 
killed  by  the  electric  current  ? 

Mr.  Constable:— I  mean  to  say  that  the  State  Board  of 
Electric  Commissioners  have  on  their  record  that  those  peo- 
ple were  killed  on  that  road. 

Mr.  Shaplly: — Does  that  statement  mean  they  were 
killed  by  electricity  ? 

Mr.  Constable:— I  am  stating  the  fact  from  the  record. 

Mr.  Shapley  : — Have  you  ever  seen  a  record  any  place, 
or  a  reliable  report  any  place,  of  any  kind,  in  which  they  say 
any  one  was  killed  by  the  electric  current  on  the  trolley  sys- 
tem, with  five  hundred  volts  ? 

Mr.  Constable  : — I  have  never  seen  one  killed. 

Mr.  Shapley  : — Did  you  ever  see  a  reliable  statement  that 
a  man  had  been  killed  by  the  electrical  current  on  the  trolley 
system  ?    If  so,  tell  me  where  it  was  ? 

Mr.  Constable  .-—No,  sir;  I  haven't 

Mr.  Haynes  : — Allow  me  to  retract.  Persons  have  been 
killed  in  the  city  of  Newark,  and  I  can  tell  you  how  it  was. 
Two  cars  stopped  at  a  crossing,  guarded  on  the  pole  side.  The 
person  gets  out  of  the  car  going  in  the  direction  of  the  other 
side,  and  then  stops  directly  in  front  of  the  car  here  (indi- 
cating) and  the  person  is  killed.  A  child  ran  across  the  street 
and  struck  against  the  electric  car.  That  child  was  not  killed 
by  the  electric  current,  however. 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  I  did  not  intend  to  ask  you  the  question  whether  these 
people  were  killed  by  the  electric  current  or  not.    That  was 


9 


^3 

not  my  question.  The  question  which  I  put  to  you  was 
whether  you  had  not  stated — I  think  you  had  stated — that 
no  person  had  been  killed  on  that  line,  and  therefore  I  put 
the  question  to  you. 

A.  It  brought  out  this  answer  to  the  question,  that  nobody 
has  been  killed  on  the  cars  by  the  electric  current,  to  my 
knowledge,  in  the  city  of  Newark. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  apply  it  to  Boston,  and  I  happen 
to  know  this  fact  of  which  I  spoke. 

A.  One  other  question  was  asked  with  regard  to  real  estate. 
Since  the  roads  have  been  under  the  control  of  the  Essex 
Passenger  Railway  Company,  on  the  road  through  Central 
Avenue,  it  diverges  in  front  of  the  Cathedral,  and  goes  down 
Washington  Street,  and  those  roads  are  to  connect  with  the 
Springfield  Avenue  Road  and  run  on  the  same  track.  There  was 
a  talk  of  taking  up  those  tracks  that  would  lead  to  Broad 
Street  some  two  or  three  weeks,  and  I  had  the  most 
earnest  protestations  against  allowing  the  railroad  people  to 
take  up  those  tracks  on  account  of  the  increase  in  business 
that  was  on  that  line,  because  that  track  came  to  that  point 
where  it  was  leased  on  the  Central  Avenue  Road. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  When  the  proposition  was  first  made  to  introduce  this 
trolley  system  into  Newark,  did  it  meet  with  opposition  ? 
A.  It  met  with  great  opposition. 

Q.  Substantially  the  same  objections  to  it  that  are  made 
to  it  here  ? 

A.  I  knew  what  the  difficulty  would  be  to  put  poles  on 
opposite  sides  of  the  street  over  seventy-five  feet.  I  had 
grave  doubts  whether,  under  existing  ordinances,  we  had  a 
right  to  place  those  poles  there,  and  hence  I  signed  the  obli- 
•  gation  where  the  poles  must  be  placed  in  the  centre  of  the 
street.  The  Honorable  George  Halsey  opposed  the  matter, 
and  it  was  decided  that  he  had  property  rights  even  in  the 
centre  of  the  street.  But  the  Legislature  of  New  Jersey, 
which  adjourned  only  on  Friday  last,  have,  1  believe,  passed 
a  general  law,  by  which  those  poles  can  be  placed  nearly  on 
the  line  of  the  street,  or  on  the  sidewalk.    Some  of  us  wanted 


14 

twenty  dollars  for  a  pole  here ;  others  were  more  generous, 
they  wanted  ten  dollars,  and  others  wanted  fifty  dollars. 
Under  those  circumstances,  it  would  be  almost  an  impossibil- 
ity to  secure  the  right  of  the  road  to  go  through  the  city.  I 
signed  the  ordinance  putting  the  poles  in  the  centre  of  the 
street,  because  I  believed  the  Mayor  and  Councils  had  the 
control  of  the  street.  Application  is  already  before  the 
Common  Council,  or  the  Street  Commissioners,  for  the  ex- 
tension of  this  system,  and  there  are  a  number  of  miles  to  be 
operated  during  the  coming  summer  by  the  electric  system, 
overhead  wire. 

Oscar  D.  Crosby  : — 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  I  am  the  general  manager  of  the  railway  department  of 
the  Thompson-Houston  Electric  Company. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  electrical  railway 

business  ? 

A.  Since  1887. 

Q.  What  does  that  company  do  in  the  railway  depart- 
ment ? 

A.  The  company  sells  customers  throughout  the  world  its 
electric  motors,  and  dynamos  to  drive  them,  and,  when  de- 
sired, install  the  plants  thus  sold  on  the  property  of  the  rail- 
way company. 

Q.  By  what  system  ? 

A.  By  the  trolley  system. 

Q.  Does  that  company  make  storage  batteries  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Why  not  ? 

A.  They  do  not  think  they  could  present  to  investors  a 
system  that  will  invite  one  dollar  of  investment ;  nor  do  they 
feel  that  they  could  present  the  system  that  would  carry  the 
cars  over  all  streets  that  are  met  with  in  most  of  our  cities. 

Q.  What  is  the  matter  with  the  storage  battery  ? 

A.  Its  depreciation  is  too  great.  Professor  Marks  has 
explained  that. 

Q.  Take  the  oidinary  car,  such  as  is  used  in  Philadelphia. 


15 


What  would  be  the  weight  of  your  storage  battery,  what 
would  be  the  cost,  and  how  soon  would  they  wear  out  ? 

A.  The  we^ht  would  be  from  three  thousand  to  four  thou- 
sand five  hundred  pounds ;  the  cost  would  be  something,  now, 
like  $2000  for  the  batteries. 

Q.  That  is  irrespective  of  the  motor  ? 

A.  That  is  irrespective  of  the  motor.  It  would  be  difficult  to 
tell  the  time  during  which  they  would  do  a  regular  service, 
because  they  have  never  been  so  continuously  in  regular  serv- 
ice as  to  give  accurate  data.  None  have  yet  been  made  that 
would  last  longer  than  fifteen  months,  and  the  average  life 
is  about  ten. 

Q.  Are  these  storage  batteries  used  on  any  street  railway 
in  the  United  States  ? 

A.  I  think  they  are  used  in  Washington,  and  I  think  there 
are  three  in  Dubuque,  Iowa. 

Q.  Any  other  place  ? 

A.  And  in  a  little  suburb  near  Boston. 

Q.  Take  the  trolley  system  which  you  make.  How  many 
cities  and  towns  of  the  United  States  use  it  ? 

A.  In  the  neighborhood  of  three  hundred.  The  number  is 
increasing  day  by  day. 

Q.  Name  some  of  the  most  important  ones  which  run  the 
lai^est  number  of  miles  of  track  and  use  the  largest  number 
of  cars  ? 

A.  Boston,  St.  Paul,  Minneapolis,  St.  Louis,  Cincinnati, 
Qeveland,  Buffalo,  Rochester,  Toledo,  Nashville,  portions  of 
Baltimore — they  are  not  largely  extended  yet  there ;  they 

have  just  got  their  rights.  Brooklyn  has  a  small  road,  but  we 
have  recently  contracted  a  very  large  sale  of  motors  for  the 
plain  streets  of  Brooklyn. 

Q.  How  many  miles  under  this  contract  are  to  be  covered 
in  Brooklyn,  and  how  many  cars  ? 

A  I  do  not  know  the  number  of  miles,  but  six  hundred 
cars. 

Q.  How  many  miles  approximately  ? 
A.  They  run  say  three  cars  to  the  mile,  and  that,  roughly, 
would  be  two  hundred  miles. 


Q.  I  am  informed  that  your  company  is  only  one  of  five 
companies  engaged  in  the  furnishing  and  construction  of 
these  electric  motors  for  the  trolley  system  ? 

A.  Four  or  five  companies. 

Q.  You  have  this  contract  for  Brooklyn  for  six  hundred  cars  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  miles  of  streets  are  covered  in  Boston  by 

the  trolley  system  ? 

A.  I  suppose  now  there  are  something  like  two  hundred 
and  forty  miles  covered  by  electric  wires,  and  the  number  of 
electric  cars  running  is  about  three  hundred  and  fifty.  We 
are  delivering  to  the  West  End  Railway  Company,  which 
controls  all  the  cars  in  the  city,  about  twenty-five  to  thirty 
car  equipments  every  week. 

Q.  You  are  familiar  with  Boston  and  its  streets,  and  these 

tines. 
A.  I  am. 

Q.  What  is  the  character  of  the  streets  on  which  they  run 
in  Boston,  as  to  width  and  the  amount  of  traffic,  as  compared 
with  those  named  in  this  ordinance  ? 

A.  The  principal  streets  on  which  the  lines  run  are  about  as 
wide — I  do  not  know  the  exact  measurement — as  Chestnut 
Street.  I  suppose  many  people  are  familiar  with  Washing- 
ton Street,  which  is  one  of  our  principal  streets,  and  which  is 
not  wider  than  Chestnut  Street ;  perhaps  narrower. 

Q.  It  is  very  much  a  street  like  Chestnut  Street  as  to 
travel  ? 

A.  It  is  one  of  the  most  crowded  streets  in  the  country. 
Tremont  Street,  which  is  close  to  Washington  Street,  is  per- 
haps one  of  the  most  crowded  streets  in  the  country,  and  there 
they  are  using  the  electric  cars  every  day,  and  about  four 
hundred  thousand  people  are  carried  in  that  city  every  day, 
and  out  of  that  something  like  half  are  carried  by  electric 
cars,  and  the  tendency  is  to  do  away  with  every  horse-car,  as 
they  are  increasing  their  electric  cars  at  the  rate  of  twenty- 
five  to  thirty  per  week. 

Q.  Does  the  trolley  system  in  Boston  run  down  through 
the  centre  of  the  city  or  narrow  streets  ? 


*7 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  through  a  large  number  of  them— *not  all. 
Q.  The  West  End  Company  you  speak  of  is  a  very  large 

company  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Something  like  the  Traction  Company,  controlling  a 
great  many  different  lines  on  different  streets  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  has  adopted  this  S3^tem,  or  is  adopting  it,  on  every 

line  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  they  had  the  trolley  system  in  Boston  ? 

A.  The  first  cars  were  operated,  I  think,  in  the  latter  part 
of  1888  or  the  early  part  of  1889 — somewhere  along  there. 

Q.  Take  Pittsburgh.  How  many  miles  of  tracks  are  cov- 
ered by  the  trolley  wires  ? 

A.  I  should  have  to  guess  at  it. 

Q.  Approximately. 

A.  I  should  say  one  hundred  and  fifty  or  two  hundred 
miles. 

Q.  How  many  cars  ? 

A.  I  remember  we  have  delivered  there  to  two  companies 
about  one  hundred  and  fifty  car  equipments.  There  is  an- 
other line  running,  say,  sixty ;  that  would  be  one  hundred 
and  ninety;  and  another  line  running  forty  or  fifty;  say, 
roughly,  two  hundred  or  three  hundred  cars. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  these  trolley  overhead  wires  and 
the  cars  operated  by  the  trolley  system  are  run  on  Smith- 
field  Street  and  every  street  in  the  heart  of  the  city  ? 

A.  Practically,  every  street. 

Q.  I  mean  on  the  main  streets,  in  the  heart  of  the  city. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  they  run  from  the  outskirts  of  that  city  in  all 
directions  into  the  heart  of  the  city  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  and  into  Allegheny  City  and  Birmingham — 
all  over  the  city. 

Q.  What  is  the  effect  as  to  building  up  the  outskirts  of  the 
city? 

A.  It  has  been  very  marked  in  building  up  the  outskirts 


< 


and  inducing  the  people  to  live  there— canying  them  from  and 
to  their  business  in  the  city. 

Q.  What  is  the  effect  in  Pittsburgh  and  every  other  city 
you  know  about  on  property  along  the  trolley  system's  line  ? 
Has  it  depreciated  or  not  ?  * 

A.  r  know  it  has  not.  1  should  make  a  rough  estimation 
of  the  appreciation  as  from  twenty-five  to  thirty  per  cent. 

Q.  From  the  nature  of  your  business,  you  must  be  familiar 
with  everything  connected  with  the  effect  of  this  system  upon 

property. 

A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  heard,  outside  of  the  letter  of  this  sub- 
ject recently  published  here,  where  this  system  has  caused 
any  depreciation  in  the  value  of  any  property  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  of  such  cases. 

Q.  I  find  in  this  petition  here,  that  it  is  alleged  that  this 
system  involves  every  car  dangerous  to  life  and  to  limb. 
What  is  your  inference  in  regard  to  it,  derived  from  your 
knowledge  of  all  the  different  cities  in  this  country  with  which 
you  are  familiar?    Is  that  so,  or  not  ? 

A.  That  is  not  so.    There  is  not  to-day  an  authentic 
case— not  a  single  case  of  a  death  of  a  human  being  from 
an  electric  trolley  wire.    I  myself,  like    other  men  in 
the  business,  have  received  this  current.     It  has  been 
pretty  well  explained  to  you  by  others  to-day,  and  dif- 
ferent in  the  amount  of  current  which  can  go  through  a 
body.    The  very  closest  and  best  analogy  is  a  system  of 
ordinary  distribution.    Im^ine  you  have  a  pipe  running 
along  this  street,  in  which  water  is  carried  by  sufficient  pumps 
at  a  pressure  of  a  hundred  pounds  per  square  inch.    Tap  into 
that  large  pipe  any  number  of  little  pipes  an  inch  in 
diameter,  and  each  one  of  these  will  give  a  certain  amount  of 
pressure  or  current.    There  is  enough  force  in  these  trolley 
wires  to  kill  all  the  people  in  this  room— the  whole  outfit— if 
it  could  get  into  us ;  but  as  you  cannot  put  into  that  one  inch 
pipe  all  the  pressure  in  the  large  pipe,  so  it  is  impossible  to 
force  into  a  human  body  any  larger  amount  of  pressure  than 
the  joint  will  give.    I  have  myself  measured  the  resistance  of 


19 

human  bodies,  and  the  current  at  a  pressure  of  about  five 
hundred  and  ten  units  has  passed  through  my  body.    It  was 

an  uncomfortable  shock.  I  did  not  like  it.  We  people  in 
the  business,  who  have  at  times  to  go  down  and  handle  this 
machinery,  have  some  regard  for  our  own  lives,  and  there  are 
millions  upon  millions  of  human  beings  who  walk  under  those 
wires  and  ride  in  those  cars,  and  I  know  of  no  authentic  case 
of  any  one  being  killed. 

Q.  How  many  horses  have  been  killed  by  this  system  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know.  There  are  cases  where  three  or  four 
horses  have  been  killed  by  the  current.  It  may  have  been 
some  higher  pressure  than  is  ordinarily  used,  but  I  think 
it  is  fair  to  say  that  three  or  four  may  have  been  killed. 

Q.  If  any  larger  number  than  that  had  been  killed — I 
mean  a  larger  number  in  the  two  hundred  and  thirty  or  two 
hundred  and  fifty  cities  using  over  four  thousand  miles  of 
track,  would  you  be  likely  to  know  of  it  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  and  as  a  matter  of  fact  all  of  this  that  I  hear 
to-day  reminds  me  of  the  pictures  with  which  you  are  doubt- 
less familiar — before  taking  and  after  taking.  We  go  through 
it  every  time.  Three  or  four  years  ago  it  was  the  same  in 
every  city  we  went  to.  That  was  before  taking  it.  After 
taking  it  represents  that  you  do  not  hear  about  these  things. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  electrical  business  ? 

A.  Since  1887,  in  commercial  business. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  made  a  study  of  electricity  ? 

A.  For  two  or  three  years  previous  to  that.  I  was  in  the 
engineer  corps  of  the  army,  and  had  occasion  to  study  elec- 
tricity as  applied  to  torpedoes. 

Q.  I  want  to  read  from  this  petition  which  has  been  signed 
by  many  people,  and  ask  you  whether  or  not  they  are  true  in 
fact :  "  But  more  serious  objections  exists,  and  the  use  of 
electric  motors  with  overhead  wires  upon  the  streets  of  towns 
and  cities  has  created  profound  apprehension  in  the  minds  of 
the  people  wherever  such  motors  have  been  used  or  have 
been  proposed  to  be  introduced."  Is  that  true  as  to  "  after 
taking  " — that  is,  the  creating  of  profound  apprehension  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  it  is  just  in  Philadelphia  as  it  is  where  the 


20 


thing  is  not  known.  I  live  in  Boston,  and  the  electric  cars 
are  accepted  as  one  of  the  ordinary  facts  of  existence.  Tlie 
care  do  not  make  any  greater  time  down  in  the  crowded  parts 
of  the  city,  where  they  are  interlarded  with  horse-cars,  than 
the  horse-cars.  As  soon  as  you  object  to  the  electric  cars  be- 
cause it  is  possible  to  run  them  on  crowded  streets  at  a  high 
^>eed,  you  might  as  well  say  you  object  to  the  steam  engine, 
because  it  can  go  at  sixty  miles  an  hour  and  has  to  run 
through  such  cities  as  Newark  and  Trenton,  when  they  must 
get  down  to  ten  miles  an  hour. 

Q.  Suppose  a  car  started  at  the  extreme  end  of  Tenth 
Street,  and  a  passenger  got  on  a  mile  or  two  miles  below 
Chestnut  Street,  to  go  two  miles  beyond,  and  the  ride  upon 
the  horse-car  would  take  some  thirty  minutes.  In  what  time 
could  he  make  that  distance  by  the  electric  car  run  by  the 
trolley  system,  without  the  car  being  run  in  any  manner  that 
would  be  dangerous  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  the  nature  of  that  street.    I  cannot  tell 
whether  it  is  one  of  your  crowded  streets,  or  not. 
Q.  It  is  a  street  that  is  not  crowded.    In  the  early  morning 
Und  evening  there  are  a  great  many  people  on  it  ? 
I^A.  Twelve  miles  an  hour  are  made  on  not  overcrowded 
streets,  and  I  know  of  one  city  where  they  fix  fifteen  miles  as 
the  speed  which  should  not  be  exceeded  on  a  street  where 
there  was  comparatively  small  traffic. 

Q.  Take  Boston  itself— take  a  street-car  that  starts  down 
m  the  very  heart  of  the  city— by  the  state-house,  and  that 
runs  through  the  built-up  portion  of  the  city  for  a  distance, 
say  five  miles.  What  is  the  average  time  upon  horse-cars  for 
that  distance  ? 

A.  They  make  in  the  neighborhood  of  five  or  six  miles  in 
about  thirty  minutes. 

Q.  What  does  experience  prove  is  the  time  that  a  trip 
could  be  made  by  an  electric  car? 

A  The  schedule  of  one  of  the  lines  I  happen  to  be  familiar 
with.  On  one  of  the  lines  in  Cleveland  it  is  nine  and  a  frac- 
tion miles  per  hour.  The  schedule  of  a  great  many  lines,  and 
those  which  have  a  good  deal  of  crowded  traffic  to  support  in 


21 


Boston,  is  from  eight  to  nine  miles  an  hour.  I  received  a 
telegram  from  Boston  saying  the  new  line  out  to  Harvard 
had  been  opened  and  the  time  had  been  cut  down,  I  think  it 
was  ten  minutes*  run  between  the  two  points,  three  or  four 
miles  apart 

Q.  How  do  the  cars  that  are  now  operated  in  Boston  and 
averaging  that  time  compare  with  the  time  they  made  when 
they  were  running  the  old  way  with  horse-cars  ? 

A.  The  increase  in  speed  may  be  expressed  in  general  as 
froni  fifty  to  seventy-five  per  cent.  I  have  run  a  car  into  the 
city  of  Boston  at  the  rate  of  thirty  miles  an  hour.  I  run  one 
in  the  city  of  Buffalo  at  the  rate  of  twenty-five  miles  an  hour. 
We  could  give  you  any  speed  you  want.  I  have  run  an  elec- 
tric car  one  hundred  and  ten  miles  an  hour.  That,  however, 
is  out  of  the  question  for  a  city.  We  will  supply  any  speed 
that  will  suit  the  purpose  of  the  purchasing  company. 

Q.  How  about  the  control  of  the  car?  Can  the  electric 
car,  run  by  this  trolley  system,  be  stopped  more  rapidly  than 
an  ordinary  horse-car.^ 

A.  It  can  be  stopped  more  rapidly,  and  I  can  explain  it. 
If  you  are  running  with  a  horse-car,  the  only  thing  you  can 
do  to  stop  your  car  is  to  apply  your  brakes.  By  every  method 
you  can  apply  just  so  much  receding  force  by  any  system, 
whether  it  is  an  electric-car  or  a  horse-car.  But  in  cases  of 
danger,  where  it  is  absolute  to  stop  a  car  quickly,  we  have  a 
new  thing  to  fall  back  on.  In  one  instant  the  whole  force  of 
the  motor,  which  has  been  driving  the  car,  can  be  turned  on  • 
in  the  opposite  direction.  Therefore,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  if 
children  were  to  get  in  front  of  the  car,  the  driver  makes  a 
simple  turn  like  that,  which  reverses  the  direction  of  the  turn 
of  the  wheel  and  stops  the  car. 

Q.  So,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  they  ate  safer  as  to  dangers  oc- 
curring on  tracks  than  the  ordinary  horse-car  ? 

A.  They  are.  Take  any  given  speed  at  which  you  are 
driving  a  car.  That  means  a  certain  momentum,  a  certain 
driving  force  along  there.  That  moving  body  can  be  held  in 
check  better  if  driven  by  electricity  than  if  driven  by 
horses. 


22 


Q.  I  want  to  read  the  next  sentence  of  this  petition: 
"The  noise  made  by  a  car  propelled  in  this  way  is  exceeding- 
ly annoying  and  distressing  to  persons  residing  or  doing  busi- 
ness upon  the  lines  of  such  improvements."  What  is  the 
truth  as  shown  by  actual  experience  ? 

A.  The  truth  is  this:  the  way  electric  cars  were  firet  made 
they  were  a  great  deal  noisier  than  the  case  is  to-day.  As  a 
matter  of  fact,  to-day  we  can  take  any  one  of  you  and  put 
you  in  a  car  run  by  the  machinery  as  sold  now,  and  it  will  be 
practically  impossible  for  you  to  distinguish  the  noise  of  the 
machinery  which  is  doing  the  work  above  the  general  rumble 
of  the  movement  of  the  car.  Of  course,  we  cannot  make  a 
car  a  mass  of  wood  and  iron  and  go  over  a  track  and  make 
it  absolutely  noiseless. 

Q.  Take  the  people  who  live  along  a  line  of  a  street  ? 

A.  They  simply  pay  no  attention  to  it  When  the  cars 
were  originally  put  in  Richmond  they  made  a  great  deal  of 
noise.  I  was  the  general  manager  of  the  company  that  made 
the  motors.  Those  motors  were  among  the  first  that  were 
put  into  service,  and  they  gave  a  great  deal  of  trouble. 
Now,  as  I  say,  the  people  who  live  along  the  lines  of  the 
railway  to-day  pay  no  attention  to  it  whatever. 

Q.  They  used  to  use,  a  couple  of  years  ago,  what  is  called 
the  double  reduction  motor  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  which  the  wheel  run  at  the  rate  of  fifteen  hundred 
revolutions  ? 

A.  The  armature,  the  moving  part  of  the  motor,  had  a 
very  high  .speed,  because  at  that  time  we  did  not  know  how 
to  make  it  lower  and  get  the  necessary  force  to  drive  the  car 
along. 

Q.  As  I  recollect,  the  annoyance  and  noise  of  the  old- 
fashioned  motor  was  the  whirring  of  the  armature  ? 
A.  The  armature  and  the  wheels. 
O.  That  is  removed  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  have  heard  complaints  made  about  the  hissing  .sound 
from  the  contact  of  the  trolley  wheel  with  the  wire  ? 


23 


A.  That  is  not  a  hissing  sound  due  to  the  contact  between 
the  wheel  and  the  trolley.  I  have  known  certain  sections 
of  the  trolley  wire  to  be  set  in  vibration.  It  is  only  a  spo- 
radic case — now  and  then. 

Q.  Are  there  any  complaints  in  Boston  by  the  people  who 
own  property  along  the  two  hundred  and  some  odd  miles  of 
streets — I  mean  down  in  the  central  parts  of  the  city — ^about 
the  noise  ? 

A.  No.    I  am  perfectly  free  to  state  that  the  motors  put  in 

three  years  ago,  like  those  at  Richmond,  were  noisy;  but 
they  are  not  now. 

Q.  Do  you  happen  to  know  what  kind  of  a  motor  it  is  that 
is  running  on  the  electric  road  in  Harrisburg  ? 

A.  They  have  both  kinds.  They  have  some  of  the  old 
ones,  and  I  think  they  have  some  few  new  ones. 

Q.  It  is  stated  in  this  petition  again  that  the  introduction 
of  this  overhead  wire  will  tend  to  cause  fires  and  be  danger- 
ous to  property  in  every  way.  What  is  the  experience  of  the 
different  cities  in  this  country  on  the  subject  of  fires  ? 

A.  I  think  I  can  answer  that  with  some  figures  that  were 
prepared  by  one  of  the  officials  of  the  company  that  I  repre- 
sent, a  few  days  ago.  I  have  a  transcript  from  the  fire  mar- 
shal's report  in  the  city  of  Boston  for  the  years  ending  May 
31st,  1888,  1889,  and  1890,  and  for  the  period  of  eight  months 
ending  January  3fst,  1891. 

Q.  This  is  the  same  report  to  which  Mr.  Constable  referred. 

A.  It  is  the  fire  marshal's  report.  During  this  period  of 
nearly  four  years  there  were  six  thousand  three  hundred  and 
ninety-six  fires  in  Boston,  the  causes  of  which  were  disclosed 
by  investigation  in  two  thousand  eight  hundred  cases.  Some 
of  the  causes  are  as  follows :  Ashes  from  tobacco  pipes  and 
lighted  cigar  stumps,  seventy-nine,  or  two  and  four-tenths 
per  cent. ;  rats  and  matches,  eighty-three,  or  two  and  four- 
tenths  per  cent.  ;  fire-crackers  and  fire-works,  one  hundred 
and  four  fires,  or  three  and  one-tenth  per  cent. ;  gas  jets  ex- 
plosions, one  hundred  and  nine,  or  three  and  two-tenths 
per  cent. — after  some  seventy  years'  development  of  the  gas 
business ;  defective  flues,  one  hundred  and  sixteen,  or  three 


24 


and  six-tenths  per  cent. ;  bon-fires,  one  hundred  and  thirty- 
five,  or  three  and  nine-tenths  per  cent. ;  sparks  or  heat  from 
furnaces  and  steam-pipes,  four  and  one-tenth  per  cent. ;  over- 
heated stoves,  four  and  three-tenths  per  cent. ;  matches  in 
hands  of  children,  eight  and  one-tenth  per  cent ;  kerosene 
lamps,  nine  and  three-tenths  per  cent. ;  electric  wires,  one  and 
six-tenths  per  cent. 

Q.  That  includes  electric  light,  wires  and  all  ? 

A.  Everything  in  the  city,  with  the  general  tendency  in 
many  of  the  people  to  blame  the  electric  wire  for  everything. 

Q.  To  what  extent  are  electric  wires  used  ? 

A.  Very  large. 

Q.  The  same  as  they  are  here  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Overhead  wires  ? 

A.  It  has  this  whole  mileage  of  two  hundred  and  forty 
miles,  or  whatever  it  may  be,  of  electric  road. 

Q.  I  mean  electric  light  wires  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  largely. 

Q.  Do  those  reports  state  how  many  of  these  fires  were 
caused  by  the  trolley  wire  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  as  they  are  distinguished,  one  from  the 

other. 

Q.  There  was  a  fire  occurred  about  three  years  ago,  which 
was  mentioned  by  a  gentleman  here,  Mr.  Constable.  He 
stated  in  a  very  positive  way— it  was  Mr.  At  wood  Smith- 
that  the  experts  among  insurance  people  had  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  it  was  caused  by  a  trolley  wire  falling  on  an 

electric  time  wire. 

A.  I  heard  about  it,  and  I  inquired  into  it.  I  lived  in 
New  York  at  the  time.  There  was  a  general  cry  at  first  that 
it  must  have  been  the  trolley  wire.  That  was  the  general 
tendency  three  years  s^o,  to  lay  every  mysterious  fire  on  the 
electric  wire. 

Q.  And  the  insurance  people  endeavored  to  create  that 
impression  ? 

A.  It  was  one  of  those  fires  whose  origin  was  not  authen^ 
tically  determined.  I  cannot  say  it  was  not  the  trolley  wire„ 
and  I  cannot  say  it  was. 


25 


Q.  It  has  been  stated,  by  the  opponents  of  these  ordinances, 
and  it  was  stated  here  substantially  by  Mr.  Atwood  Smith,  that 
the  insurance  companies,  if  this  system  were  put  up  in  Phila- 
delphia, would  be  compelled  to  increase  the  rate  of  insurance. 
Do  you  know  whether  the  rates  of  insurance  have  been  raised 
in  Boston,  Brooklyn,  Baltimore,  Pittsburgh,  St.  Louis,  Cin- 
cinnati, or  any  other  city  in  the  United  States,  on  any  prop- 
erty on  the  line  of  streets  on  which  this  system  runs  ? 

A.  I  do  not  I  cannot  recall  any  instance  now  in  which 
that  is  the  case.  I  can  well  understand  that  the  body  of  un- 
derwriters would  take  alarm.  Their  first  move  is  self-protec- 
tion. They  say  we  will  put  the  rates  up,  and  if  it  does  in- 
crease fires,  we  are  safe. 

Q.  Another  objection  I  see  these  objectors  make  is,  in  case 
of  fire  "the  interference  with  the  efforts  of  those  engaged  in 
extinguishing  the  flames  has  proved  to  be  a  most  serious  ob- 
struction."   What  is  your  experience  as  to  that  ? 

A.  The  obstruction  has  not  been  a  serious  one.  I  think  I 
can  say  that  the  electrical  fraternity  and  railway  companies 
have  the  good-will  of  the  fire  department  in  all  cities  where 
they  are  used. 

Q.  How  do  the  firemen  manage,  in  case  of  fire,  as  to  the 
telephone  wires,  and  electric  wires,  and  trolley  wires. 

A.  The  bare  troHey  wire  is  not  often  seriously  in  the  way 
because  it  is  in  the  middle  of  the  city^  If  it  should  be  nec- 
essary to  cut  the  wire  they  can  do  so.  Some  of  them  are  sup- 
plied with  rubber  gloves.  And  they  can  call  the  linemen  to 
cut  them. 

Q.  A  great  deal  has  been  said  here  about  the  conduit  sys- 
tem, which  is  said  to  work  in  Buda-Pesth.  Are  you  familiar 
with  it? 

A.  I  am  familiar  with  the  printed  reports  on  the  matter. 

We  have  had  some  reports  from  our  European  correspond- 
ent. 

Q.  Has  the  conduit  been  tried  in  this  country  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  Where  ? 

A.  At  All^heny  City  and  in  Boston. 


26 


Q.  A  con^derable  amount  of  money  was  spent  in  Pitts- 
burgh ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  About  ^100,000  or  more? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  We  purchased  the  company  that  did  that  work. 

Q.  What  was  the  result  of  those  experiments  ? 

A.  That  the  engineers  who  put  forward  that  system,  and  the 
people  in  it,  are  to-day  at  all  times  stating  that  it  is  practically 
out  of  the  question  to  make  conduit  system  that  will  be  sat- 
isfactory. 

Q.  What  are  the  practical  difficulties  in  the  way  ? 

A.  You  have  the  hole  in  the  ground.  There  are  two  ways 
of  making  a  circuitr-one  with  the  ground  and  the  other  by 
returning  it  over  a  wire.  In  using  the  ground  you  have  the 
earth  itself,  which  corresponds  to  the  wire.  In  the  conduit 
system  this  would  be  in  a  gutter,  and  you  have  two  conduct- 
ors which  are  carrying  a  current  with  a  pressure  of  five  hun- 
dred volts,  and  if  your  joints  are  bad,  and  they  are  practically 
destroyed  in  this  case,  because  of  the  moisture  and  the  snow — 
and  the  small  boy  will  put  a  knitting-needle  down  the  slot, 
and  drop  things  in  to  see  the  effect  of  the  force  work—the 
earth  would  conduct  this  voltage  into  it.  Then,  again,  there 
are  topographical,  conditions  wherein  it  would  be  simply  out 
of  the  question  to  get  the  drainage.  Tremember  in  New 
York  City,  down  in  West  Street,  being  in  chaise  of  a  shop 
there,  where  sometimes  the  water  in  the  sewer  backed  up  so 
that  there  was  practically  no  drainage. 

Q.  If  the  Buda-Pesth  system,  or  any  conduit  system — the 
one  devised  by  Mr.  Marks,  for  instance — could  be  made  to 
work,  wouldn't  your  company  take  it  up  ? 

A.  If  we  could  use,  commercially,  any  of  the  conduit  S)^ 
tems,  we  could  save  a  great  deal,  and  I  should  be  out  of  my 
place  to  appear  before  you  to-day.  It  is  certainly  worthy 
of  some  record  that  those  who  have  spent  millions  and 
millions  of  money  in  this  business  and  to  whose  very  inter- 
est it  is  to  offer  that  system  which  will  meet  with  the 
least  objection,  have  not  themselves  been  able  to  offer  that 
system. 


27 


Q.  What  is  your  general  experience  as  to  the  trolley  giv- 
ing satisfaction  ? 

A.  It  has  been  a  satisfaction  or  we  could  not  have  so  many 

miles  of  it  in  operation.  We  could  not  do  a  business  which 
has  grown  beyond  our  ability  to  care  for  it. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known  of  a  road  on  which  this  trolley 
system  has  been  put,  on  which  it  has  been  abandoned  ;  if  so, 
what  ? 

A.  I  think  some  of  the  very  early  efforts  have  been 
abandoned. 

Q.  I  am  speaking  of  more  recent  time.s. 

A.  None  of  those  which  have  gone  in  in  the  last  two  years. 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  there  is  any  objection  to  overhead 
wires  in  narrow  streets  in  cities  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  some  of  them  ? 

A.  The  objections  that  would  be  raised,  in  the  first  place, 
against  anything  that  is  put  up,  and  the  objection — it  can 
best  be  explained  by  this  model.  It  is  objectionable  in  a  cer- 
tain sense.  For  instance,  I  would  not  want  any  smoke  on 
the  locomotive  which  is  going  to  take  me  back  to  New  York 
this  evening.  This  is  a  life  of  compensation,  and  in  getting 
clean,  pleasant,  well-lighted  cars,  that  move  rapidly,  there  is 
a  compensation  far  in  excess  of  what  you  pay  for  it. 

Q.  Is  there  any  danger  of  any  kind,  either  to  persons  or  to 
animals,  from  the  stringing  of  these  wires  across  our  streets  ? 

A.  The  danger  to  persons  will  be  limited  to  the  shock,  such 
as  I  have  described,  if  they  occur  at  all. 

Q.  Is  there  any  such  danger  ? 

A.  Employes  get  the  shocks  constantly. 

Q.  Is  there  any  danger  to  individuals  walking  along  the 
street  ? 

A.  To  say  there  is  absolutely  no  danger  would  be  to  strain 
language.  There  is  danger  all  the  time,  everywhere.  There 
is  danger  of  your  dying ;  there  is  danger  of  this  roof  falling  in. 

Q.  I  ask  you  whether  you  think  there  is  any  danger  of  any 
kind  connected  with  the  overhead  wire  ? 


28 


A.  I  think  there  is  a  possibility  of  danger,  but  it  is  of  so 
small  importance  that  it  is  practically  not  a  danger  worth  con- 
sidering. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  that  the  trolley  wire  is  as  harmless,  or 

more  so,  than  others  ? 

A.  It  is  very  much  less  harmless  than  some,  and  as  to  the 
danger  to  human  life  no  more  harmful  than  any  other. 

Q.  Is  there  any  liability  in  a  storm  throwing  down  the 
wires,  of  the  trolley  coming  into  contact  with  other  wires  and 
thus  produce  a  liability  to  fire  or  to  personal  accident-^has 
the  trolley  anything  to  do  with  the  liability  in  that  way  ? 

A.  If  it  is  a  bare  wire,  when  most  of  the  other  wires  arc 
covered,  there  is  some  danger  in  wires  falling. 

Q.  Is  there  any  danger  from  the  trolley  wire  breaking  from 
the  fact  that  the  trolley  is  always  working  on  that  wire,  and 
that  the  friction  causes  it  to  break  ? 

A.  No. 

Q«  No  danger  of  that  sort  ? 

A.  No,  sir.  The  trolley  could  not  very  well  break  the 
wire.    The  trolley  presses  up  against  the  wire. 

Q.  But  does  not  that  friction  produce  any  wear  on  the 

wire  ? 

A.  Yes.  I  suppose  at  the  end  of  a  thousand  years  it  might 
wear  that  pulley  through. 

Q.  You  think  it  is  practically  nothing  ? 
A.  I  think  it  is  practically  nothing. 

Q.  Is  there  not  a  peculiar  liability  to  danger  from  the 
breaking  of  wires  during  a  sleet  storm  ? 

A.  There  is  a  greater  strain  upon  a  wire  in  a  sleet  storm, 
and  the  sleet  lodges  upon  the  wire. 

Q.  You  are  familiar  with  the  accidents  that  occurred  in 
Albany  last  winter  a  year  ago.  Was  there  or  was  there  not 
quite  a  number  of  accidents  in  the  shape  of  fire  occurred  from 
that  cause  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know.  I  was  living  in  New  York  and  Boston. 
Q.  You  made  no  investigation  at  that  time  of  the  alleged 
accidents  in  the  city  of  Albany  ? 

Au  I  was  living  there  and  did  not  make  any  investigations. 


Q.  Do  you  know  that  was  chained  ? 
A.  No. 

Q.  Never  heard  anything  about  it  ? 
A.  No. 

Q.  Then  you  arc  entirely  ignorant  of  what  occurred  in 
the  city  of  Albany,  in  the  winter  beginning  December,  1890, 
and  ending  March,  1891  ? 

A.  No.  All  that  I  know  about  Albany  is  that  it  is  a  place 
where  we  sold  a  great  many  electric  cars,  and  are  selling  more 
every  day. 

Q.  You  don't  know  anything  about  the  accident  that  oc- 
curred. 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  disturbances  that  occurred  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  any  liability  of  the  trolley  cars  being  disturbed 
in  their  motion  and  stopped  during  the  trouble  with  the 
storm  ? 

A.  There  is  a  liability ;  yes,  sir. 
Q.  Is  it  not  very  frequent  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  often  do  you  know  it  to  occur  ? 
A.  It  has  certainly  occurred.    I  do  not  know  how  many 
times. 

Q.  Have  you  not  noticed  it  occur  frequently  during  the 
last  month  ? 
A.  No. 

Q.  You  think  there  is  liability  through  storm  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  said  there  was. 
Q.  What  is  that  ? 

A.  I  could  not  express  it  in  any  more  accurate  way  than  I 
have  done.  There  is  that  liability,  and  I  believe  all  of  you 
would  say  that  if  it  was  very  great  we  could  not  do  our  busi- 
ness. 

Q.  When  was  this  electric  system  by  trolley  first  noticed  ? 

A.  I  think  Mr.  Siemens  was  among  the  first  ;  that  was 
some  twelve  years  ago.  As  to  its  introduction  in  any  com- 
mercial way  in  this  country,  which  dates  back  to  something 


3P 


like  1884  or  1885,  when  the  first  experiments  were  made* 

The  Richmond  road,  which  has  been  adverted,  gained  its 
prominence  because  the  system  was  appHed  under  great  diffi- 
culty and  on  a  larger  scale  than  had  at  that  time  been  at- 
tempted, and  while  its  record  was  one  of  a  great  deal  of 
trouble  for  those  who  were  connected  with  it,  it  has  been 
made  the  turning  point  for  the  electric  car. 

Q.  When  do  you  consider  this  system  became  a  commercial 

success  ? 

A.  In  the  early  part  of,  say,  1888. 

Q.  Up  to  that  time  how  many  roads  were  in  operation 
under  this  S3^tem  ? 

A.  Ten  or  twelve,  probably. 

Q.  The  people  who  entered  into  that  experiment  were 
generally  people  of  capital. 

A.  They  were  men  in  small  cities, 

Q.  They  believed  in  making  this  a  success  ? 

A.  Unless  they  were  protected  by  guarantees  of  the  manu- 
facturing company,  that  I  do  not  know.  I  was  not  connected 
with  the  company. 

Q.  The  assumption  was  they  could  make  it  a  success  ? 

A.  They  must  have  had  some  confidence.  You  can  judge 
that  as  well  as  I  can. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  people  very  often  enter  into  enter- 
prises of  that  sort  which,  to  a  very  lai^e  extent,  prove  to  be 
failures,  who  are  very  good  business  men  themselves  and 
waste  their  money  in  things  of  that  sort  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  you  have  this  system  of  trolley  wires 
in  a  perfect  state  of  operation  ? 

A.  No,  sir.    I  should  want  to  leave  the  company  if  I 

thought  we  were  not  going  to  get  on  in  our  progress. 

Q.  Do  you  believe  this  system  of  passenger  cars  by  elec- 
tricity will  be  so  much  improved  in  the  next  two  years  or  five 
years  as  it  has  been  in  the  last  five  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  because  in  the  last  five  years  it  was  not  much 
more  than  a  mere  experiment,  and  to-day  it  is  a  certainty. 

Q.  If  a  system  of  underground  or  conduit  wires  could  be 


31 

adopted,  would  you  consider  it  an  improvement  upon  the 
overhead  systems  ? 

A.  If  it  could  be  adapted  to  meet  the  commercial  wants, 

of  course. 

Q.  Wouldn't  you  consider  that  it  would  be  a  very  great 
improvement  in  streets  as  narrow  as  ones  where  there  are  so 
many  overhead  wires  ? 

A.  It  would  be  preferable ;  certainly. 

Q.  There  is  no  question  about  that  ? 

A.  None  in  my  mind. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  character  of  Mr. 
Siemens,  the  man  who  is  said  to  have  invented  this  Budar- 
Pesth  system  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  him  personally.    I  know  Mr.  Siemens. 

Q.  Is  not  his  firm  at  the  head  of  the  electrical  business  of 
the  world  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Where  do  they  stand  ? 

A.  The  head  of  the  electrical  business  of  the  world  is  in 
America. 

Q.  Where  do  they  stand  in  Europe  ? 
A.  There  they  might  probably  be  said  to  be  at  the 
head. 

Q.  Was  not  Mr.  Siemens  practically  the  inventor  of  the 
trolley  system  ? 

A.  No.  No  one  has  been  the  inventor  of  the  trolley  sys- 
tem of  any  definite  point.  There  was  an  electric  road  run- 
ning as  early  as  1884 — not  a  trolley  system.  But  he  was  the 
first  one  who  run  it. 

Q.  Was  not  Mr.  Siemens  the  man  who  practically  intro- 
duced the  trolley  system  into  use  ? 

A.  That  comes  pretty  near  being  a  fair  statement  of  the 
case.  He  directed  more  attention  to  that  by  what  he  did,  I 
think  it  was  twelve  years  ago,  than  had  been  done  previously. 
The  art  has  not  developed  in  Europe. 

Q.  What  do  you  know  of  his  reputation  and  his  success 
in  that  line  ?  Would  you  give  credence  to  a  statement  made 
by  him,  or  by  those  who  succeeded  him,  the  firm  of  Siemens 


32 

&  Holske,  that  they  had  succeeded  in  accomplishing  the  sys- 
tem that  gives  good  results  in  Buda-Pesth  ? 

A.  I  would  give  it  all  the  credence  to  believe  that  he  has 
achieved  good  results  under  those  conditions. 

Q.  Is  it  not  probable  that  if  they  have  had  that  system  in 
operation  for  two  years  or  more,  and  have  put  it  in  at  a  cost 
of  |;20,ooo  a  mile,  because  that  seems  to  be  the  statement— 
and  that  it  is  a  success— -you  have  no  knowledge  that  it  is 
not? 

A.  No.    I  should  want  a  great  many  facts.    The  word 
"  success  '*  has  a  whole  range  of  meaning. 
Q.  Have  you  made  any  investigation  into  that  Budar 

Pesth  system  ? 

A.  We  have  reports  from  our  correspondent  in  Europe,  and 
are  waiting  to  hear  more  from  it. 

Q.  Taking  the  topographical  conditions  that  exist  in  Buda- 
Pesth,  which  I  understand  oi^fht  to  be  considered,  and  taking 
the  report  which  you  are  getting  in  reference  to  the  system, 
have  you  any  reason  to  doubt  that  it  is  a  success  ? 

A.  I  have  not  any  reason  to  doubt,  because  I  do  not  know 
what  it  has  cost  to  do  it 

Q.  The  question  is  whether  you  had  any  reason  for  doubt- 
ing it,  from  anything  you  have  heard  adversely  ? 

A.  I  have  heard  this :  I  have  heard  that  the  govarmncnt 
of  that  particular  province  has  prohibited  the  offer  of  the  sale 
pf  the  bonds  of  that  concern  to  the  general  public. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  why  ? 

A.  They  said  this  thing  is  purely  experimental.  If  they 
offer  it  to  the  public,  they  do  not  want  the  public  to  take 
stock  in  an  enterprise  which  was  not  beyond  the  experimental 
stage. 

Q.  From  all  you  can  learn  from  that,  will  you  say  that 
you  know  knowing  but  that  it  is  experimental,  and,  therefore, 
you  do  not  know  whether  it  is  a  success  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  referred  to  the  speed  at  which  cars  can  be  run.  I 
understood  you — and  I  may  have  misunderstood  you  and 
would  like  to  get  right  about  it— that  in  the  densely  popu- 


33 


lated  portion  of  Boston,  in  the  narrow  streets  there,  their 
speed  was  not  over  six  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  On  Tremont  Street  it  is  not  an)^hing  like  six  miles  an 
hour.   Cars  crawl  along,  eight  and  ten  cars  to  the  block. 

Q.  How  far  does  that  slow  speed  eHtend  ? 

A.  Five  or  six  blocks. 

Q.  Does  the  rapid  speed  not  begin  until  you  get  into  the 
wide  streets  ? 

A  Yes,  sir.  It  is  not  a  question  of  the  width  of  the  streets, 
unless  in  so  far  as  the  trafik  in  those  streets  affects  them.  It 
is  not  a  question  of  width,  but  whether  a  body  can  move  along 
there. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  get  at  is  whether  those  cars  move  at  any 
greater  rate  than  six  miles  an  hour,  or  whether  they  move  at 
less  in  the  densely  populated  part  of  the  city,  and,  if  so,  under 
what  conditions  ? 

A.  Using  the  words  "  densely  populated  portion  **  in  a  very 
restrictive  sense,  I  should  say,  no.  We  might  have  different 
ideas  of  what  "  densely  populated  "  is. 

Q.  How  far  do  the  cars  run  in  streets  as  densely  populated 
as  Chestnut  Street  ? 

A.  Miles  of  them. 

Q.  Give  me  the  streets  ? 

A.  Washington. 

Q.  How  far  do  they  run  on  Washington  Street  ? 
A.  I  think  something  like  a  mile  and  a  hall. 
Q.  Where  do  they  begin  ? 

A.  They  run — I  do  not  know  the  name  of  the  street.  You 

know  where  Albany  Street  is.  1  should  say  it  is  about  a  mile, 
or  a  mile  and  a  half. 

Q.  What  other  streets  ? 

A.  On  Tremont  Street. 

Q.  How  far  ? 

A.  Say  a  mile.    I  am  not  exact  now. 

Q.  Where  else  ? 

A.  On  Winter  Street.  And  they  run  on  a  number  of  tor- 
tuous streets,  the  names  of  which  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  Is  not  the  portion  of  Boston  that  is  occu^iied  by 


34 


residences  of  Boston  proper,  comparatively  limited  by  reason 
of  the  water  which  is  around  it  ? 

A.  No.  There  is  not  any  city  in  the  country  that  has  the 
extent  of  suburbs  that  Boston  has. 

Q.  I  am  speaking  of  the  city  proper. 

A.  There  is  one  very  large  area  there  which  is  called  the 

Back  Bay  District. 

Q.  That  city  has  very  wide  streets  ? 

A.  Newbury  and  Marlboro — as  wide  as  those. 

Q.  Aie  not  most  of  the  avenues  through  that  portion  of 
Boston  wide  ? 

A.  No,  sir.    Commonwealth  is  the  only  one  of  an  extreme 

width. 

Q.  What  is  the  width  of  the  avenue  at  the  Hotel  Bruns- 
wick  ? 

A.  It  is  a  street  not  wider  than  Chestnut  Street. 
Q.  From  curb  to  curb  ? 

A.  From  curb  to  curb.  You  have  the  idea  of  great  width 
because  it  is  opposite  the  School  of  Technology,  and  there  is 
a  great  open  space  there. 

Q.  How  is  it  opposite  Mr.  Brooks'  church  ? 

A.  There  is  an  open  space  again  and  a  little  square  called 
Commons  Square. 

Q.  It  runs  along  Boston  Commons,  does  it  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  along  the  new  public  gardens  ? 

A  Yes,  sir.  There  is  a  great  fight  in  Boston  as  to  whether 
they  can  take  any  of  the  Commons  for  street  purposes. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  population  of  Boston  laigely 
comes  into  the  city  in  the  morning  and  goes  out  at  night  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And,  therefore,  is  it  not  a  fact  that  these  means  of  ac- 
cess create  the  demand  for  rapid  transit  ? 

A.  Certainly.    That  exists  in  every  great  city  where  we  go. 

Q.  Is  not  that  particularly  so  in  Boston  ? 

A.  I  should  say  that  I  believe  the  suburban  population  of 
Boston  is  perhaps  a  little  larger  in  proportion  to  the  city 
proper  than  in  most  cities. 


35 


Q.  Is  it  not  a  great  deal  like  the  city  of  New  York,  where 
the  people  pour  in  in  the  morning  and  out  In  the  afternoon  ? 

A.  Yes ;  and  there  is  a  great  population  lives  within  walk- 
ing distance  of  their  offices. 

Q.  You  take  Pittsburgh,  where  you  say  these  narrow  streets 
are  used.  Are  not  the  streets  within  the  heart  of  the  city  of 
Pittsburgh  very  much  confined  by  the  hills,  and  is  it  not  true 
with  reference  to  Pittsburgh,  as  to  Boston,  that  this  system  of 
rapid  transit  into  and  out  of  the  city  is  very  much  more  in 
demand  than  it  would  be  in  the  city  of  Philadelphia,  where 
the  streets  run  at  a  great  distance  in  every  direction  ? 

A.  I  think  from  the  fact  that  Philadelphia  is  spread  out  is 
one  of  the  reas(Mis  why  it  would  be  after  rapid  transit 

Q.  You  have  spoken  of  some  two  hundred  and  fifty  cities 
that  are  using  this  trolley  system.  Can  you  tell  me  some 
other  cities  except  Boston  and  Pittsburgh  in  which  this  sys- 
tem is  used  with  streets  as  narrow  as  ours? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  I  could  do  it  off-hand — Richmond  and  Scran- 
ton.    Harrisbuig  I  am  not  familiar  with. 

Q.  As  a  rule,  the  trolley  cars  are  run  upon  wide  streets  ? 

A.  No,  sir.    They  go  on  the  most  traveled  streets. 

Q.  Are  you  not  aware  that  in  almost  all  the  cities  you  have 
referred  to  the  streets  are  wide  ? 

A.  I  am  not  certain  they  are  as  wide  as  Philadelphia.  I 
know  that  you  have  particularly  narrow  streets  as  compared 
with  some. 

Q.  As  compared  with  most  of  the  modern  cities  of  the 
country  ? 

A.  No;  I  do  not. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  did  not  know  of  any- 
body that  had  ever  been  killed,  or  that  you  did  not  think 

there  was  any  danger  connected  with  the  trolley  wires.  I 
want  to  read  you  what  I  saw  in  the  papers,  and  I  ask  you  if 
there  was  any  danger  in  that  ?  (Mr.  Bullitt  reads  from  the 
issue  of  the  Philadelphia  Ledger^  of  December  23d,  1891, 
which  stated  ikak  in  New  Albany  a  man  named  Lewis  Hacker 
was  injured  by  electric  trolley  wires,  and  was  not  expected  to 
recover.)  Did  you  see  that  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


36 


Q.  Did  you  know  anything  about  it  ? 
A.  I  know  this  about  it  That  that  New  Albany  incident, 
and  one  time  in  Michigan,  were  both  paraded  very  largely  to 
the  public  press  as  being  instances  of  the  killing  of  people  by 
the  trolley  wire.  I  know  that  at  the  time  some  electrical 
man  made  it  a  point  to  get  at  the  facts  surrounding  those 
two  instances.  This  was  after  the  New  Albany  incident,  and 
this  other  one  at  Grand  Rapids,  or  some  other  town.  And 
his  conclusions  were  that  there  had  been  no  authenticated  case 
of  a  death  from  trolley  wires. 

Q.  Let  me  read  another  one  from  the  Philadelphia  Record, 
of  November  21st,  1891.  (Mr.  Bullitt  reads  from  the  issue 
of  the  Philadelphia  Record  of  that  date  concerning  a  man 
named  George  Sullivan,  in  striking  a  nail  and  hitting  a  trol- 
ley wire,  which  doubled  him  up  and  caused  him  to  fall  down.) 

A.  I  know  nothing  about  the  incident.  That  is  taken  from 
one  of  the  papers  of  the  day. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  get  at  is  this:  This  states  that  he  fell 
backwards  in  striking  on  a  live  wire,  with  the  back  of  the 
neck,  and  that  he  was  thrown  in  the  air.  Is  that  likely  to 
ensue  from  such  a  thing  ? 

A.  I  can  only  speak  from  my  own  personal  experience  and 
seeing  men  getting  this  shock  and  getting  up  and  using  strong 
language. 

Q.  If  a  man  happened  to  be  at  an  elevation  of  fifteen  or 
twenty  feet  and  received  such  a  shock,  would  he  be  able 

to  get  down,  or  not  ? 

A.  When  he  releases  his  hold  the  shock  ceases. 

Q.  Then  you  do  not  feel  there  is  any  danger,  particularly 
to  a  man  who  receives  a  shock  in  the  air  at  that  distance  ? 

A.  The  fall  might  hurt  the  man,  but  I  do  not  think  the 
shock  would  kill  him. 

Q.  You  were  asked  in  reference  to  the  noise  made  by  the 
•trolley  cars.  I  understood  you  to  say  there  was  a  noise 
which  was  most  annoying  at  Richmond,  if  I  recollect  aright ; 
but  that  has  been  done  away  with  since,  I  understood  you  to 

say?- 

A.  Yes,  sir. 


37 


Q.  Now,  is  there  not  a  certain  amount  of  noise  from  the 
wheel  running  on  the  wire  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  true.  There  is  a  certain  amount  of 
noise. 

Q.  Is  not  that  one  of  those  things  which  is  diss^eeable 
and  offensive  to  hear? 

A.  I  can  only  answer,  if  you  will  allow  me  

Q.  Suppose  a  person  living  in  one  of  our  streets  during  the 
summer  had  the  window  open — ^.  second-story  window,  being 
removed  from  the  trolley  over  twenty-five  feet — would  that 
or  not  be  audible  to  the  person  in  that  room  ? 

A.  I  think  in  some  cases  it  would  be  and  in  some  it  would 
not. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  some  trolleys  make  a  noise 
and  some  do  not  ? 

A.  That  is  what  I  mean  to  say.  Of  course,  there  is  a 
noise  made  by  every  car.  We  know  that  all  cars  make 
noise  and  the  horses  make  a  noise,  and  the  noise  of  the  trol- 
ley wire  itself  is  such  that  it  is  swallowed  up  in  the  noise  that 
is  made  by  the  car. 

Q.  If  they  were  opposite  the  sleeping  rooms  of  a  house, 
would  it  not  be  likely  to  affect  the  persons  living  in  that  house  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  not  at  all. 

Q.  You  have  heard  the  cable  on  Market  Street.  Do  you 
mean  to  say  that  the  trolley  wire  is  not  more  offensive  to  per- 
sons in  the  second-story  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  how  offensive  it  is  to  you,  but  it  is  not 
to  me.  I  have  slept  in  a  room — a  front  room,  in  a  house  on  a 
street  not  wider  than  this — Chestnut  Street — with  a  double 
line  of  cars  passing  it,  and  I  can  only  say  that  the  noise  from 
the  trolley  does  not  affect  me. 

Q.  Do  you  hear  the  noise  ? 

A.  I  do. 

Q.  Is  there  any  liability  to  a  hissing  of  sparks  from  the 

trolley  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  At  what  times  are  they  more  noticeable  ? 
A.  They  may  be  on  all  the  time. 


38 


Q.  When  can  they  be  seen  best  ? 
A.  At  night. 

Q.  To  what  extent  do  they  exist  ?  Is  it  not  caused  by 
their  being  a  little  hiatus  in  the  electrical  wires  ? 

A.  If  there  is  any  roughness  in  the  trolley  wire.  If  there 
is  any  snow,  there  may  be  an  induction  of  the  spark  between 
the  wire  and  the  trolley. 

Q.  Do  you  or  not  believe  that  in  two  years  from  now  we 
will  have  a  S3^em  of  propulsion  by  electricity  which  will  be 
free  from  very  many  of  the  objections  which  now  exist  ? 

A.  I  do  not  believe  that.  We  are  trying  to  do  what  we 
can  to  improve  it.  In  all  these  five  years  there  has  been  a 
large  improvement  in  the  trolley  system. 

Q.  Has  there  ever  been  any  subject  that  you  know  of  in 
which  the  human  mind — the  scientific  mind — is  more  exer* 
cised  than  it  is  to-day  in  experiments  in  electricity  ? 

A.  No. 

Q.  Are  not  the  improvements  which  are  being  made  in 
the  power  of  propulsion  by  electricity  probably  the  most  im- 
portant that  are  being  made  to-day  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  it  not,  then,  probable  that  in  two  years  from  now 
there  will  be  much  greater  strides  made  than  have  been  made 

in  the  last  five  years  ? 
A.  In  what  direction  ? 

Q.  In  the  improvement  of  the  system  of  propulsion  and 
the  removing  of  the  objections  which  now  exist  ? 

A.  We  make  great  strides  all  the  time.  It  is  perfectly  im- 
possible for  me  to  stand  here  to-day  and  say  to  you  or  any- 
body else  that  1  can  look  in  the  future  and  see  what  will 
happen  two  years  since.  We  are  trying  to  make  improve- 
ments all  the  time. 


MR.  GEORGE  WESTINGHOUSE. 

A  painter  was  painting  a  building  in  Pittsburgh,  and  some- 
thing gave  away  and  he  fell  down  on  a  high-tension  wire 
and  saved  his  life. 


39 


By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Is  this  the  case  I  read  from  the  Ree^frd? 
A.  No. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  about  Sullivan  being  done  up  ? 

A.  No.  If  he  fell  and  did  not  have  his  foot  on  anything 
he  would  not  get  a  shock. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  anything  about  this  case? 

A.  No.  I  only  know  of  the  other  where  a  live  wire  saved 
the  man. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  I  am  the  Inventor  of  the  air-brake  and  connected  with 
electric  companies. 

Q.  You  are  connected  with  the  Westinghouse  Company  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  we  manufacture  motors  and  generators.  The 
trolley  wires  are  generally  put  up  by  the  companies  that  put 
up  the  railways. 

Q.  You  are  thoroughly  familiar  with  the  trolley  system  ? 

A.  I  am,  comparatively  so. 

Q.  And  all  motors  connected  with  the  electric  roads  of 
this  country  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  live  in  Pittsburgh  ? 
A..  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  running  the  electric  cars  in 
Pittsburgh  ?  When  the  attenipt  was  made  to  introduce  that 
system  was  it  received  pleasantly  by  the  people  ? 

A.  They  did  not  care  anything  about  it  there. 

Q.  They  are  more  progressive  there  than  here  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  The  only  thing  that  surprises  me  is  that  this 
meeting  should  not  be  the  other  way— to  compel  you  to 
put  it  up. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  people  of  Pittsburgh  could  be  in- 
duced to  have  it  taken  away  ? 
A.  No. 

Q.  There  are  a  couple  hundred  miles  of  it,  I  believe,  in 

Pittsburgh  ? 
A.  I  should  hardly  put  it  at  as  much  as  that. 


40 


Q.  In  what  streets  is  it  ? 

A.  It  is  all  over  creation.  The  Pen n  Company  took  every 
street  that  was  not  taken  by  the  other  company,  and  they 
have  it  from  points  in  Allegheny,  Manchester,  and  up  on  the 
hili.  Tiiey  run  it  op  at  twelve  per  cent  grade,  away  out  at 
East  End,  at  Greensburg.  They  have  taken  a  great  deal  of 
Pennsylvania  Railroad  traffic.  The  people  get  on  the  cars 
and  come  down  quickly  and  comfortably  and  go  back  again. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  almost  all  the  suburban  lines  that 
bring  people  in  run  right  down  into  the  very  heart  of  the  city, 
in  almost  every  important  street  in  the  centre  oC  the  city  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  at  high  rates  of  speed  ;  and  it  used  to  be  a  Very 
common  thing  for  people  to  get  out  from  behind  the  horse- 
cars — people  in  carriages.  Since  they  have  the  cable  and 
electric  cars  there  everybody  gets  out  of  the  way  of  them  at 
a  higher  speed. 

Q.  Fifth  Avenue  is  the  principal  business  street  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  a  little  wider — not  much — ^than  Chestnut 
Street ;  and  Smithfield  Street  is  about  the  width  of  Chestnut 
Street. 

A.  Yes,  sir.  It  has  two  tracks,  and  the  wagons  can  hardly 
pass  along  the  side.  A  ws^on  can  turn  out  to  the  right  or  to 
the  left  so  a  car  can  pass.    And  it  is  so  on  Penn  Avenue. 

Q.  That  is  another  principal  street  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  They  run  it  at  about  eight  or  nine  miles  an 
hour. 

Q.  What  has  been  the  gain  in  speed,  taking  all  the  electric 
cars  as  a  whoki  md  comparing  them  with  the  hoi^se-ciu:s  ? 
What  has  been  the  gain  in  speed  ? 

A.  I  should  say  it  was  double. 

Q.  In  other  words,  they  make  .the  same  distance  in  about 
one-half  the  time  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  has  been  the  effect  on  the  suburbs  ? 

A.  Enormot^.  It  has  added  so  to  the  convenience  of  the 

people  that  a  person  who  wishes  to  go  down  can  get  in  a 
cable  car  or  electric  car  at  his  door,  and  go  to  his  very  place  of 


41 


busineiss,  and  many  people  go  that  way  instead  of  taking  the 

Pennsylvania  Railroad. 

Q.  What  has  been  the  effect  on  the  property  through 
which  it  goes  ? 

A.  We  are  suffering  from  a  new  assessment ;  and  judging 
by  its  increase,  property  has  gone  up  four-fold. 
Q.  So  there  is  no  depreciation  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q,  What  has  been  the  danger  to  life  of  passengers  or  peo- 
ple crossing  the  street  from  the  electric  current  ? 

A.  None  that  I  know  6f. 

Q.  Any  horses  killed  there  by  the  current? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  but  I  do  not  think  it  is  the  one-hundredth 
part  of  the  horses  killed  on  the  horse-cars,  if  you  take  that 
standpoint. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  heard  of  the  rates  of  insurance  being  in- 
creased OH  Any  property  along  those  lines  ? 
A.  No.   There  is  mil  a^t^ttion  going  on. 

insurance  companies  are  trying  to  increase  the  rates  ? 

A.  I  think  in  some  cases  it  might  increase — in  some  ex- 
ceptional cases. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  trolley  system  in  Boston  and 

other  cities  ? 
A.  il  have  seeil  it  there. 

Q.  Another  objection  has  been  made  on  the  ground  of 
noise.  What  is  the  experience  of  Pittsburgh  people  as  to 
noise  ? 

A.  We  have  some  motors  there  that  are  noisy  and  objec- 
tiOQabie^  but  they  are  putting  on  other  motors  that  are  so 
noiseless  in  their  operation  that  the  objection  is  removed. 

Q.  That  the  new  motor ;  does  that  make  any  more  noise 
than  is  made  by  the  horse-car  ? 

A  Not  so  much.  I  think  the  noise  of  the  horses'  feet  on 
the  cobble-stones— on  the  pavement — is  much  greater  than 
that  of  the  electric  cars. 

Q.  There  has  been  a  great  deal  said  about  conduits  to-dky. 
You  ought  to  know  all  about  them  ? 

A. .  I  ought  to.    The  conduit  has  to  be  made  of  iron  and 


42 


made  strong,  and  the  wires,  when  they  are  laid  inside,  are 
likely  to  leak  into  this  iron  conduit,  and  if  there  is  a  horse 
steps  on  them  and  gets  on  the  rail  it  will  receive  a  shock. 

Q.  There  was  an  experiment  made  in  Pittsburgh  or  Alle- 
gheny City  with  that  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  in  that  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  abandoned  as  a  complete  failure  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  After  spending  a  good  deal  of  money  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  were  the  practical  difficulties  that  were  found 
there  ? 

A.  The  leakage  and  burning  out.  Putting  the  electricity 
up  in  the  air  is  best.    Air  is  the  best  insulator  known. 

Q.  There  is  some  talk  about  the  danger  of  fire  to  houses. 
Would  it  be  possible  for  a  current  of  five  hundred  volts,  sup- 
posing the  insulation  of  the  span  wire  was  broken,  and  the 
current  passed  over  the  span  wire  to  the  poles  and  disap- 
peared in  the  ground,  would  it  be  possible  for  the  current  to 
leak  through  the  pole  into  the  air  across  the  distance  of  the 
pavement  ^Ito  the  house  ? 

A.  No  ;  it  would  not  go  through  the  air  the  space  of  one- 
sixteenth  of  an  inch.  Fires  are  more  liable  to  be  caused  by 
the  heavy  wires  coming  into  contact  with  the  lighter  ones — 
the  telephone  wire. 

Q.  That  is  to  say,  the  accidents  that  have  happened  and 
are  spoken  of,  as  to  fires,  have  occurred  from  the  electric  light 
wires  coming  into  contact  with  

A.  Telephone  wires. 

Q.  And  therefore  on  streets  on  which  there  are  none  of 
these  wires  there  would  be  absolutely  no  danger  from  fire  ? 
A  Absolutely  none. 

Oscar  B.  Crosby,  recalled  : — 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Will  you  state  whether  on  streets  where  the  trolley  sys- 


43 


tern  is,  where  there  are  other  wires  ranging  from  ten  to  forty, 

you  ought  to  have  your  wires  protected  by  guard  wires  ? 

A.  Where  those  wires  are  parallel  to  the  trolley  wire,  it  is 
not  necessary,  because  if  these  wires  fall,  they  won't  fall  on 
that  wire.  With  regard  to  putting  guard  wires  at  certain 
intersections  of  the  street,  it  is  a  question  that  the  engineer  in 
charge  of  the  insulation  will  judge,  as  he  goes  from  point  to 
point  along  the  line. 

Q.  It  is  a  question  of  judgment  for  the  engineer. 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

George  Westinghouse,  recalled : — 
By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  Do  you  know,  or  is  it  known  to  any  men  in  your  busi- 
ness, of  any  other  system  than  this  trolley  system — this  over- 
head wire  system — by  which  street  cars  can  be  propelled  suc- 
cessfully ? 

A.  I  know  of  no  other  system.  I  think  the  storage  battery 
system  which  has  been  alluded  to  is  impracticable.    I  had 

one  of  the  first  out,  and  the  rapid  deterioration  of  them  con- 
vinces me  that  it  was  an  impracticable  device,  either  for  light- 
ing or  power,  and  I  think  if  the  people  wait  for  more  comfort- 
able cars  and  higher  speed  that  the  storage  battery  won't 
supply  it. 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Pittsburgh  is  bounded  by  the  Allegheny  River  on  one 
side  and  the  Monongahela  on  the  other,  and  very  high  hills 
all  around. 

A.  Yes,  sir;  four  hundred  feet  high — three  hundred  and 
fifty  feet  above  the  river. 

Q.  Therefore  is  not  the  trolley  system  a  desirable  thing  to 
have  to  ride  out  to  the  suburbs  on  account  of  these  high 
hills  ? 

A.  Not  on  account  of  that,  but  on  account  of  the  distance. 
Q.  Do  not  these  high  hills  render  it  necessary  for  the  pop- 
ulation, as  it  is  increasing,  to  flow  over  into  the  suburbs  ? 

A.  Only  to  the  extent  that  it  affords  them  a  rapid  means 
of  transit  to  and  from  their  home. 


44 


Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  the  country  around  Philadel- 
phia ? 

A.  I  have  a  general  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  to  sa;y  that  the  system  will  be  as  essential 
to  Philadelphia  as  it  is  to  Pittsburgh,  taking  the  topographical 
conditions  into  consideration  ? 

A.  I  think  it  will  be  one  of  the  best  adjuncts  to  the  health 
of  your  city  as  it  is  to  Pittsburgh. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  that  the  topographical  conditions  of 
Pittsbuigh  makes  it  any  more  necessary  there  than  here? 

A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  Buda-Pesth  system  ? 
A.  I  have  seen  the  drawings,  and  I  have  looked  at  them. 
Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  men  who  built  it  ? 
A.  YeS|  sir. 
Q.  Who  are  they  ? 

A.  Mr.  Siemens  is  probably  one  of  the  most  eminent  sci^ 
cntific  men  in  the  world. 

Q.  Has  not  he  been  more  forward  than  anybody  else  in 
the  matter  of  the  propulsion  of  cars  by  electricity  ? 

A.  They  have  paid  more  attention  to  this  Siemens*  lamp 
and  glass  and  iron,  &c.,  and  electricity  is  one  of  the  things 
they  have  taken  up  during  the  past  few  years. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  they  are  the  men  who  have  been  fore- 
most in  introducing  propulsion  by  the  trolley  system  ? 

A  Yes,  sir.  I  saw  the  first  car  they  put  into  the  Paris  Ex- 
position. They  put  a  line  in  a  place  near  Edinborough.  They 
had  the  trolley  line  running  about  a  foot  above  ground.' 
That  was  one  of  the  first  commercial  lines  they  put  in. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  the  system  of  overhead  wires  for  a 
city  like  Philadelphia,  with  our  narrow  streets,  is  desirable  ? 

A.  I  do  think  so. 

Q.  You  think  it  is  desirable  to  have  overhead  wires  ? 
A.  I  come  here  frequently,  and  I  walk  faster  than  I  can 
ride. 

Q.  I  am  asking  you,  not  with  reference  to  the  trolley  sys- 
tem, but  I  am  asking  you  about  overhead  wires  of  any  kind  ? 
A.  If  you  could  get  a  system  of  rapid  transit  equally  as 


45 


good  then  I  should  say  the  trolley  would  not  be  desirable,  but 
if  that  gives  you  any  better  transit  than  you  have  got,  or  than 
anything  else  at  a  lower  cost,  I  should  say  it  would  be  de- 
sirable. 

Q.  Please  answer  the  question.  The  question  I  put  is 
whether  you  think  it  desirable  to  have  overhead  telephone, 
telegraph,  and  trolley  wires  in  a  city  like  ours  ? 

A.  I  should  say  it  is  not  desirable  to  have  them  overhead 
— telegraph,  telephone,  or  other  electric  wires.  We  cannot 
put  those  under  ground  successfully  in  a  great  many  cities. 

Q.  Knowing  the  fact  that  we  have  in  very  many  of  our 
streets  many  electric  wures,  do  you  think  it  is  wise  or  ad- 
vantageous to  add  some  more  ? 

A.  I  think,  for  the  results  to  be  obtained,  it  is  wise. 

Adjourned  to  meet  on  Wednesday,  March  i6th,  at  12 
o'clock  noon.   

STATEMENT  OF  PROFESSOR  DUNCAN. 

Wednesday,  March  16th,  1892. 

By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  What  is  your  position  and  in  what  university  ? 

A.  I  am  at  the  head  of  the  electrical  department  at  the 
Johns  Hopkins  University,  Baltimore. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  at  the  head  of  that  depart- 
ment ?  , 

A.  Six  years. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  devoted  your  attention  and  time 
to  the  study  of  electricsd  matters  ? 
A.  Ten  years. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  different  systems  of  propel- 
ling street  cars  by  electricity  ? 
A.  I  am. 

What  examination,  outside  of  the  examination  of  the 
literature  on  the  subject,  have  you  made  of  the  different  lines 
and  systems  in  different  cities  ? 

A.  I  have  made  reports  of  the  different  systems  for  com- 
.panies,  and  1  have  designed  more  or  less  machinery  used  in 


46 


electrical  operations.  I  have  also  experimented  on  storage 
batteries,  and  have  built  a  storage-battery  car  which  I  have 
run. 

Q.  Then  you  have  also  been  employed  by  companies  as  an 

expert  to  make  reports  upon  different  matters  of  electrical 
machinery,  and  therefore  know  what  you  are  talking  about  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Where  have  you  seen  the  trolley  system,  for  instance, 
in  general  operation  ? 

A.  I  have  seen  it  in  Boston,  Qeveland,  Pittsburgh,  and  a 
number  of  cities. 

Q.  State  in  your  own  way  whether  the  storage  battery  or 
the  conduit  system,  which  have  been  spoken  of,  are  or  are 
not  practical — whether  the  trolley  system  is  more  practical 
and  practicable — ^their  advantages  and  the  disadvantages 
which  you  have  heard  urged  here  and  which  you  have  read 
in  the  newspapers. 

A.  The  three  systems  that  could  be  possibly  used  for  elec- 
trical traction  to-^y  are  the  overhead  trolley  system,  the 
conduit  system,  and  the  storage-battery  system.  Of  those, 
the  trolley  system  is  the  only  one  in  practical  use.  I  except 
a  road  outside  of  those  which  is  hardly,  I  should  say,  an  as- 
sured commercial  success  as  yet.  That  road  is  in  the  hands 
of  a  company  from  which  no  data  as  to  expense  can  be  ob- 
tained. As  to  storage  batteries,  I  have  made  consider- 
able inquiry.  The  roads  were  started  first  in  Brussels  by  the 
Julian  Company.  A  road  in  England  was  started,  and  after 
prolonged  experiment  it  was  abandoned.  Every  care  was 
taken  in  the  Brussels  road,  which  was  not  a  very  difficult  one 
to  operate  as  we  look  at  roads  here,  and  every  attention  was 
given  to  make  it  a  success.    It  failed. 

In  this  country  we  have  an  equal  record  of  failure.  In  New 
York,  on  Fourth  Avenue,  the  t«tteries  are  very  much  similar 
to  the  other  companies,  and  that  road  failed,  the  cars  being 
taken  off.    At  Dubuque,  Iowa,  they  have  failed  also. 

About  three  years  ago  I  was  called  on  in  Baltimore  to 
build  a  car  for  some  people  who  owned  rights  for  storage 
batteries,  and  the  rights  they  owned  were  under  the 


47 


Accumulator  Company.  The  batteries  were  made  according 
to  the  Accumulator  Company's  patents.  I  think  those 
batteries  were  as  good  as  any  that  had  been  made  at  the 
time,  or  possibly  since,  because  I  have  used  some  of 
them  for  stationary  work  since  then,  and  they  have  been 
very  successful.  We  built  the  batteries  and  the  car 
was  equipped  by  the  Sprague  Company  of  New  York. 
It  was  run  perhaps  altogether  two  weeks,  or  the  steady 
running  of  it  amounted  to  about  that.  At  the  end  of 
that  time  the  positive  plates  began  to  give  way,  and  the 
car  was  taken  off  and  has  not  been  used  since.  The 
reason  that  that  car  went  to  pieces  quicker  than  most  was 
on  account  of  the  very  heavy  grades  in  Baltimore.  The 
great  difficulty  with  s  torage  batteries  is  not  that  they 
have  not  enough  stor^e  power.  You  can  get  enough 
energy  in  them  to  run  a  car  for  a  considerable  distance, 
but  you  can  only  take  the  energy  out  of  the  battery  at  a  cer- 
tain rate.  Now  take  the  circular  of  the  Accumulator  Com- 
pany. They  refer  to  a  cell  that  weighs  forty  pounds,  and  it 
would  require  one  hundred  of  those  cells  to  run  a  car,  making 
a  weight  of  four  thousand  pounds.  They  give  the  rate  las  a 
maximum  of  thirty  amperes.  To  pull  a  car  up  a  five  per  cent, 
grade  at  the  rate  of  six  miles  an  hour  it  would  take  eighty 
amperes,  and  in  a  grade  heavier  than  that,  of  course  very 
much  more.  That  is,  you  have  got  to  work  away  outside  of 
what  the  company  gives  as  a  maximum  rate.  The  difficulty 
is  also  that  the  batteries  deteriorate — ^the  positive  plates— on 
account  of  the  heavy  discharge  rate,  and  in  the  last  four  or 
five  years  the  batteries  have  not  been  greatly  improved  in 
that  respect.  Their  life  is  not  longer  than  it  was  some  years 
ago.  I  have  had  batteries  lately  made  by  a  company  that 
made  very  good  ones  a  few  years  ago,  that  are  not  good  at 
all.  Battoies  have  been  introduced  into  use  in  electric 
lights,  but  the  great  improvement  has  been  not  in  the  cells, 
but  in  the  appreciation  of  the  fact  that  the  cell  is  not  a  thing 
to  be  used  as  we  want  to.  We  have  got  to  have  an  immense 
weight  of  metal  instead  of  a  very  light  weight. 

BofBOBnllyy  I  do  not  think  that  an  onMnmy  toad  can  be 


48 


run  by  storage  batteries  and  made  to  pay.  In  Washington 
there  is  a  road  called  the  Metropolitan  Road,  which  is  going 
to  have  fcwrty  cars,  I  think.  In  that  city  it  is  impossible  to 
use  overhead  wires.  Hiey  are  not  allowed.  That  road  caiir 
riot  be  run  by  cable  on  account  of  the  curves,  of  whidi  theile 
are  an  immense  number,  and  cable  engineers  say  that  it  can- 
not be  run  by  cable.  By  act  of  Congress,  horses  will  not  be 
allowed  there  after  a  certain  time,  so  they  are  driven  to  stor- 
age batteries,  but  they  have  not  yet  selected  a  battery. 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q,  Is  that  the  road  that  runs  along  Pennsylvania  Avenue  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  it  ran  on  F  Street  up  to  about  a  month  ago. 
Their  motors  are  being  built  and  a  power-house  put  up,  but 
they  have  not  yet  selected  a  battery  to  run  their  road.  The 
records  had  not  been  good  enough  for  them  to  choose  any 
particular  battery. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  road  in  the  United  States  or  in 
Europe  that  is  using  the  storage  battery  ? 

A.  There  is  a  road  in  Washmgton  with  about  six  cars,  I 
think,  using  it. 

Q.  I  mean  outside  of  that. 

A.  There  is  a  road  in  Manchester,  England,  where  the 

storage  battery  is  used.  The  reports  from  that  road  in  the 
technical  journals  are  not  favorable,  but  as  to  the  matter  of 
the  expense  account  in  that  case,  1  don't  know  anything 
about  it    I  only  know  what  I  have  seen  in  the  papers. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  in  the  United  States  than  the  one 
that  you  have  spoken  of  in  Washington  ? 

A.  No  regular  running  road.  The  conduit  system,  of 
course,  has  an  advantage,  if  it  can  be  applied,  but  it  has  been 
tried  in  the  United  States  in  two  or  three  places— tried  in 
Cleveland,  and  it  was  tried  in  Boston ;  a  number  of  experi- 
ments have  also  been  made  in  other  pkices«  That  has  alws^y$ 
failed  on  account  of  the  difficulty  of  insulating  the  wires  an4 
getting  the  current  from  the  wires  to  the  car. 

One  road  that  is  in  successful  operation  is  a  road  at  Buda- 
•Pesth.    That  road  at  first  was  not  operated  in  the  winter 


49 


months,  though  whether  it  is  now  I  don't  know.    The  first 

winter  it  was  not  operated  by  electricity  in  the  winter  months, 
but  by  horses.  That  road  has  a  slot  of  thirty-three  millime- 
tres— about  one  and  three-tenths  inch  wire.  There  is  more 
or  less  trouble  about  getting  the  current  from  the  wire  through 
the  slot.  That  road  is  possibly  more  or  less  a  success  under 
the  conditions  in  which  it  is  run — that  is,  in  the  summer 
months ;  but  with  this  wide  slot,  it  would  not  be  permitted 
here. 

As  far  as  work  in  this  country  goes,  although  it  might  be 
possible  to  put  down  a  conduit  and  give  very  good  results, 
yet  it  has  never  been  done,  and  if  tried  it  would  be  an  exper- 
iment. There  is  nothing  that  we  can  go  to  that  I  think  would 
lead  any  one  trying  to  put  a  road  in  to  use  the  conduit  sys- 
tem, because  even  the  experiments  tried  here  have  been  un- 
successful in  this  country. 

Q.  Do  you  happen  to  know  whether  carriages  and  wagons 
use  the  car  track  in  Buda-Pesth,  as  they  do  in  our  cities  ? 

A.  I  have  never  been  there  and  I  do  not  know.  I  think 
it  is  very  probable  that  they  do  not.  The  trolley  line,  of 
course,  has  the  objection  that  it  puts  the  wire  above  the 
ground,  as  far  as  that  is  an  objection.  They  can  be  made  not 
very  objectionable,  if  the  line  is  properly  constructed  as  far  as . 
looks  go.  They  can  be  made  almost  absolutely  safe  by  the 
use  of  guard  wires,  and  really  the  great  danger,  as  far  as  re- 
ports of  fires  are  concerned,  is  not  from  the  trolley  line  itself, 
but  from  dead  wires  on  telegraph  and  telephone  lines.  Un- 
questionably, if  they  cross  a  live  trolley  line,  there  might  be 
trouble,  but  by  the  use  of  guard  wires,  that  can  be  obviated. 

As  far  as  the  danger  of  trolley  lines  goes,  five  hundred  volts  is 
not  a  deadly  current.  People  suffering  from  heart  disease  might 
be  killed  by  reason  of  a  shock  of  that  kind ;  I  had  myself 
such  a  shock  several  times,  and  while  it  is  annoying,  yet  the 
only  result  I  have  suffered  might  be  a  little  burn  perhaps  on 
my  finger. 

The  record  of  the  trolley  lines  in  the  last  three  or 

four  years  has  been  one  of  rather  steady  progress. 
The  first  structures  put  up  were  rather  unsightly,  but  now 


50 


a  great  deal  of  experience  has  been  brought  to  bear,  and  the 
overhead  wire  is  not  as  objectionable  as  it  used  to  be  even  in 
the  way  of  looks.  As  I  say,  I  do  not  think  it  is  at  all  danger- 
ous to  life,  and  I  think  there  are  a  great  many  reports  which 

attribute  deaths  untruthfully  to  the  trolley-wire  system.  I 
know  of  one  instance  where  there  was  no  trolley  line  in  a 
town,  yet  an  accident  which  occurred  there  was  laid  to  the 
trolley. 

Q.  The  people  who  report  them  do  not  know  the  difference 
between  the  trolley  wire  and  an  electric-light  wire  ? 

A.  No  ;  so  that  so  far  as  the  trolley  is  concerned,  I  think 
it  is  a  practical  arrangement,  and  not  dangerous,  so  far  as  the 
current  goes.  So  far  as  the  car  goes,  the  car  is  under  better 
control  than  in  most  of  the  other  systems — under  almost  ab- 
solutely close  control — and  there  should  be  no  more  accidents 
than  in  any  other  system  running  at  such  a  rate  of  speed.  In 
fact,  the  car  is  under  such  control  that  it  ought  to  stop  quicker, 
because  you  can  reverse  the  current  in  a  case  of  emergency. 
It  would  not  necessarily  be  done  unless  in  such  a  case. 

Q.  Taking  a  car  runnii^^  six  miles  an  hour,  if  the  brake  is 
put  on  immediately  to  reverse  it,  in  what  distance  ought  it 
to  be  stopped  ? 

•   A.  In  its  own  length,  very  easily,  by  the  hand-brake. 
Q.  How  about  ten  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  If  the  current  was  reversed  it  would  stop  in  the  dis- 
tance that  you  could  skid  the  wheel  It  is  under  the  same 
control  that  half  a  dozen  other  cars  would  be.    There  is 

nothing  peculiar  in  the  system  so  far  as  that  goes.  This  sys- 
tem has  been  proved  to  be  an  economical  success.  It  is 
economical.  There  is  no  question  about  that.  And  it  also 
gives  rapid  transit  when  you  cannot  get  it  by  other  systems. 

Q.  Taking  your  knowledge  of  it  in  the  many  towns  and 
cities  in  this  country  in  which  it  is  used,  what  are  the  results 
based  on  actual  experience  as  to  its  being  a  success  or  not  a 
success  ? 

A.  As  far  as  I  can  find  out,  when  it  is  once  put  up  in  a 
town  there  are  very  few  people  who  want  to  get  it  out.  Of 
course,  there  are  some  people  who  always  object  to  every- 


51 


thing.  As  a  general  thing,  however,  I  think  it  is  satisfactory 
where  it  is  put  in.  That  has  been  my  towns  where  it  has 
been  intfxxluced. 

Cross-^xamtnation, 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Have  you  had  very  much  experience  in  the  practical 
operation  of  it  in  the  various  places  to  which  3^u  have 
referred  ? 

A.  I  don't  understand  you  exactly. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  that,  so  far  as  your  experience 
had  gone  in  the  places  in  which  it  had  been  used,  it  was  satis- 
factory. Now  I  ask  you  whether  your  experience  in  that 
respect  has  been  an  intimate  one  ? 

A.  I  have  gone  to  the  different  cities  and  I  know  of  the 
reports  of  the  railroad  superintendents. 

Q.  What  class  of  cities  are  you  familiar  with  ? 

A,  Principally  in  Boston. 

Q.  Is  it  not  due  largely  to  the  fact  that  electric  cars  there 
are  very  useful  for  running  in  the  suburi>s  of  Boston  which 
gives  them  so  much  favor  ? 

A.  I  really  cannot  say  what  individual  opinion  is.  They 
simply  tell  me  that  they  like  or  do  not  like  it. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  fact,  however,  that  they  are  largely  used  for 
running  into  the  suburbs  there  ? 

A.  They  are ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Isn't  the  topographical  situation  of  Boston  such  as  to 
make  some  such  mode  of  rapid  transit  almost  a  necessity  ? 

A.  Well,  we  have  about  the  same  topographical  situation  in 
Baltimore. 

Q.  I  mean  to  say,  is  it  not  much  more  advantageous  to 
have  rapid  transit  in  a  city  situated  as  Boston  is,  surrounded 
so  largely  by  water,  and  with  high  hills  around  it  in  every 
direction — isn't  that  more  favorable  for  the  use  of  a  trolley 
system  than  a  flat,  level  city  would  be  ?  In  other  words,  does 
it  not  overcome  the  natural  difficulties  of  the  travel  from  the 
suburbs  into  the  city  more  rapidly  than  would  be  necessary 
in  a  city  like  this  ? 


52 


A,  I  think  rapid  transit  is  extremely  important  to  every 
city,  outside  of  its  topography.  You  want  to  get  in  town  as 
quickly  as  you  can,  and  I  should  imagine  that  the  advant- 
ages were  of  the  same  importance  in  a  flat  country  as  m  a 
hilly  country. 

Q.  However,  that  it  gives  to  the  city  of  Boston  such  great 
advantages,  is  the  fact  that  so  much  of  her  population  pours 
into  Boston  daily  and  goes  out  daily  to  and  from  her  sub- 
urbs ? 

A.  Well,  I  cannot  say  whether  that  is  so  or  not 
Q.  Are  you  not  familiar  with  the  fact  that  Brookline,  Cam- 
bridge, and  Jamaica  Plains,  and  all  these  different  places— 
Roxbury— are  all  very  important  suburbs  of  Boston,  from 
which  their  inhabitants  go  in  and  out  in  the  morning  and 
evening  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  it  not  also  true  that  the  trolley  cars  which  have 
been  introduced  so  generally  over  the  country  are,  in  the  main, 
used  in  streets  that  are  wide,  or  in  suburbs  that  are  compara- 
tively sparsely  populated  ?  Are  there  many  cities,  or  if  any, 
which  ones  where  the  trolley  system  has  been  introduced 
into  streets  which  are  not  more  than  twenty-five  or  twenty- 
seven  feet  from  curb  to  curb  ? 

A.  I  am  not  prepared  to  make  any  very  definite  answer  to 
that  question.  I  think  in  Pittsburgh  and  Boston  they  have 
narrow  streets. 

Q.  How  about  beyond  Pittsburgh  and  Boston? 

A.  think  some  of  the  streets  of  Cincinnati  are  very  narrow. 
I  hardly  remember,  though,  as  it  has  been  some  time  since  I 
was  there.  In  Richmond  there  are  several  narrow  streets 
and  they  have  a  line  there. 

Q.  Has  not  that  Richmond  line  been  rather  a  failure  ? 

A.  That  was  an  experiment.  Of  course,  at  first  they  had 
the  disadvantage  of  all  experiments.  The  final  success  of 
that  road  gave  an  impulse  to  electric  traction  that  it  has  to- 
day, and  has  carried  it  where  it  is. 

Q.  That  is,  it  established  the  fact  that  the  trolley  overhead 
wire  system  could  be  used  in  going  up  heavy  grades  ? 


53 


A.  It  established  the  fact  that  the  overhead  system  was  a 
success,  I  think. 

Q.  Has  not  that  road  been  very  much  objected  to  on  ac- 
count of  the  noise  which  it  made  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  about  the  noise.  A  good  many  difficul- 
ties occurred,  as  I  say,  because  it  was  an  experiment.  Almost 
all  the  experiments  were  tried  down  there. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  happen  to  sleep  in  the  Ballard  Hotel,  on 
the  side  next  to  the  street  where  the  trolley  runs  ? 

A.  I  slept  in  some  of  the  cars  there. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  sleep  there  in  the  summer  when  the  win- 
dows were  up  ? 

A.  No ;  I  was  there  in  the  winter. 

Q.  Then  you  don't  know  of  the  pleasure  of  hearing  the 
trolley  pass  at  night  ? 

A.  It  is  never  unpleasant  to  me. 

Q.  Very  great  efforts  are  being  made  now  by  practical 
mechanical  men  and  scientific  men  to  develop  this  system  of 
propulsion  by  electricity,  are  there  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  any  subject  to  which  now  public  attention  is 
more  attracted,  or  upon  which  there  is  really  more  effort  being 

made  ? 

A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  With  your  scientific  knowledge  and  experience,  have 
you  any  question  that  there  are  going  to  be  very  great  im- 
provements made  in  the  sj^tem  of  propulsion  by  electricity 

on  street  railways  ? 

A.  I  unquestionably  think  there  will  be.  In  the  last  few 
years  there  have  been  improvements.  For  instance,  from  the 
double  reduction  to  the  single  reduction,  and  the  motor 
which  makes  no  noise  at  all. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  is  likely  to  take  place  rapidly  in  the 
future  ? 

A.  It  is  now,  and  I  have  no  doubt  that  it  will  take  place 
rapidly  in  the  future. 

Q.  In  two  years  from  now  some  system  may  be  introduced 
which  may  entirely  supersede  the  present,  may  it  not  ? 


54 


A.  Very  possibly.  At  the  same  time  it  is  hardly  probable, 
I  should  say,  considering  the  range  of  development  in  the  last 
few  years.  The  s)rstem  to-day  is  almost  exactly  like  the  sys- 
tem proposed  in  1886  by  Mr.  Sprague.  It  has  almost  all  the 
essential  features,  but  differs  greatly  from  it  in  detail.  The 
details  have  been  improved  very  much.  The  fundamental 
basis  is,  however,  the  same  as  was  proposed  in  1 886,  and  used 
in  1886,  so  that  while  there  will  be,  or  there  may  be,  very 
vast  improvements  in  detail,  the  thing  will  come  gradually, 
and  the  particular  system,  I  think,  will  remain  as  it  is  for 
some  time.  The  principle  will  remain  as  it  is  for  some  time. 

Q.  Taking  the  case  of  the  trolley  system  running  along  a 
street,  it  comes  to  a  crossing  with  another  street  where  there 
is  an  aggregation  of  wires  anywhere  from  fifty  to  one  hun- 
dred. Is  it  not  important  that  there  should  be  a  careful  ar- 
rangement made  to  guard  against  the  trolley  wires  and  other 
series  coming  in  contact  ? 

A.  Do  you  mean  the  other  electric  light  wires  and  tele- 
phone and  telegraph  wires? 

Q.  Yes. 

A.  Do  you  mean  where  two  sets  of  wires  cross  one  an- 
other ?   Of  course,  that  is  important 

Q.  I  have  had  some  computations  made  of  the  wires  which 
are  found  upon  some  of  our  crossings.  For  instance,  the 
wires  running  along  Twentieth  Street  are  given  me  as  being 
twenty-eight ;  the  wires  running  down  Fifteenth  Street,  tele- 
graph wires,  one  hundred  and  six;  the  wires  running  down 
Thirteenth  Street,  telegraph  wires,  thirty-four.  Those  at  the 
crossings  of  some  of  these  streets  is  something  remarkable. 
The  wires  crossing  Twenty-second  from  Market  to  Walnut, 
four  hundred  and  sixty.  I  imagine  that  that  means  some 
three  crossings.  It  could  hardly  be  one  crossing.  That 
would  probably  give  one  hundred  and  thirty  wires  at  a  cross- 
ing. Now,  under  those  circumstances,  is  it  not  very  impor- 
tant that  there  should  be  careful  arrangements  made  to  guard 
the  wires,  to  protect  the  trolley  from  coming  in  contact  with 
the  others  ? 

A.  Of  course,  it  would  be  best  to  do  that  as  far  as  possible. 


55 


but  those  telephone  and  telegraph  wires  go  somewhere.  Now, 
the  houses]into  which  they  go  could  be  absolutely  protected 
by  cut-outs — not  a  very  expensive  apparatus — so  that  if  you 
had  no  guard  wires  at  all  and  wanted  to  drop  them  altogether, 
you  could  still  have  protection  where  they  go  into  a  house ; 
you  could  use  the  cut-out  and  the  house  would  be  protected 
against  fire. 

Q.  But  you  have  them  running  into  thousands  and 
thousands  of  houses,  have  you  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir,  and  you  could  put  a  cut-out  in  each  house.  It 
is  a  very  small  matter  and  not  expensive^  and  they  work  very 
nicely. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  into  each  house  ?  For  instance,  take  the 
Drexel  Building,  where  there  are  probably  running  into  it 
four,  five,  or  six  hundred  wires. 

A.  Possibly  it  would  cost  twenty  dollars  or  thirty  dollars 
to  put  cut-outs  in  there  for  the  whole  lot. 

Q.  For  each  one  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  for  the  whole  lot.  That  would  protect  against 
fire. 

Q.  Is  that  system  practiced  anywhere 
A.  Yes,  I  think  it  is  used  in  Boston. 
A  Member  : — It  is  used  here  also. 
By  Another  Member  : 

Q.  Is  not  the  reason  of  that  large  number  running  into  the 
Drexel  Building  the  fact  that  they  are  mainly  the  wires  of 
the  Bell  Telephone  Company. 

Mr.  Bullitt: — That  may  be.  I  only  called  attention  to 
it  to  illustrate  what  has  been  spoken  of.  (To  the  witness.) 
You  do  not  think  then  that  it  is  at  all  important,  as  I  under- 
stand you,  to  use  guard  wires  in  protecting  these  trolley  wires  ? 

A.  It  depends  a  great  deal.  I  would  put  guard  wires  in 
some  places,  and  in  some  I  would  not.  It  would  depend  en- 
tirely on  what  the  danger  of  the  crossing  was.  Of  course  you  do 
not  want  the  other  wires  to  fall  on  the  trolley  wire,  if  you  can 
help  it ;  so  that  in  some  places  where  there  was  danger  I 
would  put  a  guard  wire,  but  everywhere  there  ought  to  be 
these  cut-outs  in  houses.   They  ought  always  to  be  provided. 


56 


In  some  towns  they  are  required  ;  whether  in  Philadelphia  or 
not,  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  By  whom  are  they  usually  made — ^by  the  trolley  com- 
pany or  by  the  owners  of  the  house  into  which  they  run  or 
by  what  company  ? 

A.  By  the  company  that  runs  the  wire  into  the  house. 

Q.  Is  there  any  more  liabiHty  to  accident  from  coming  in 
contact  with  a  trolley,  due  to  the  fact  that  they  cannot  be  in- 
sulated, but  must  be  naked  ? 

A.  Unquestionably.  The  middle  trolley  wire  is  necessarily 
a  bare  wire.  The  feeding  wires  carrying  the  current  to  the 
trolley  wire  are  insulated  wires ;  sometimes  they  are  under 
ground. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  class  of  wires  that  cannot  be  insulated 
except  the  trolley  ?    Telegraph  wires  are  insulated,  are  they 

not  ? 

A.  They  are  all  uninsulated.  Telephone  wires  are  unin- 
sulated ;  that  is,  overhead  wires.  For  underground  construc- 
tion, of  course,  they  use  a  metal,  but  for  overhead  construc- 
tion, telegraph  and  telephone  wires  are  uninsulated. 

Q.  How  about  electric  light  wires  ? 

A.  They  are  usually  insulated.    In  fact,  always. 

Q.  Therefore,  have  we  not  a  liability  to  danger  from  acci- 
dent due  to  the  fact  of  these  wires  coming  in  contact  and 
being  broken,  very  largely  increased  by  reason  of  having  all- 
these  uncovered  wires  ? 

A.  You  are  very  liable  to  have  contact  between  wires. 
Whether  it  will  be  a  serious  danger  or  not  depends  upon  how 
the  system  is  constructed.  My  own  solution  of  the  matter  is 
to  put  the  other  wires  undetground.  They  can  be,  and  the 
trolley  wire  cannot. 

Q.  I  understand  you,  then,  that  you  would  say  that  you 
think  all  the  other  wires  can  be  put  underground,  and  that 
that  would  be  the  best  system  with  reference  to  them  ? 

A.  I  would  modify  that  for  suburban  districts  or  where 
there  is  very  little  traffic,  where  it  would  not  pay  to  put  wires 
undei^ound,  but  for  what  you  might  call  city  work,  I  think 
the  other  wires  can  be  and  ought  to  be  put  undei^round. 


57 


Q.  Why  do  you  think  they  ought  to  be  put  underground  ? 

A.  The  electric  light  wires  used  for  arc  lighting  have  a 
voltage  of  all  the  way  up  to  three  thousand  volts.  That  is 
deadly.  Any  one  touching  them,  if  there  is  a  break  in  the 
circuit  anywhere  else,  is  liable  to  be  killed.  In  storms,  where 
there  is  possibility  of  poles  coming  down,  there  is  always  a 
possibility  of  touching  these  wires  with  a  deadly  current  on 
them. 

Q.  Can  an  arc  light  wire  be  put  underground  except  where 
it  is  necessary  to  bring  it  up  in  order  to  make  the  light  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Therefore  you  would  say  that  good  construction  in 

reference  to  these  matters  would  be  established  by  putting 
the  telephone  and  telegraph  and  electric  light  wires  under- 
ground ? 

A.  Within  certain  districts.  Of  course,  you  would  have  to 
use  a  certain  amount  of  discretion  about  that 

Q.  For  the  city  of  Philadelphia  or  the  city  of  Baltimore, 
and  I  mean  by  that  the  well  built-up  and  comparatively  cen- 
tral portions  ? 

A.  Yes;  I  would  put  them  underground. 

Q.  Do  you  not  think  that  it  would  be  wisest,  on  the  part 
of  the  government  of  these  large  cities,  to  require  that  all  of 
theie  wires  should  be  put  underground  ? 

A.  I  do  not.  It  is  a  matter  in  which  a  great  deal  of  dis- 
cretion should  be  exercised.  There  are  some  cases  where 
they  ought  to  be  put  underground,  and  others,  within  the 
city  limits,  where  they  ought  not.  Some  one,  certainly,  ought 
to  be  appointed  who  could  tell  when  they  ought  and  when 
they  ought  not  to  be  put  underground,  and  that  person  or 
committee  should  decide. 

Q.  Of  course,  I  assume  that  the  city  authorities  would 
exercise  an  intelligent  discretion  as  to  the  distance  where 
they  ought  to  be  put  underground,  and  what  ought  not  to 
be  put  underground.  I  assume  all  that,  but  I  mean  assuming 
that  that  is  done  intelligently  and  discreetly,  do  you  not 
think  that  all  wires  should  be  put  underground  except  those 
which  cannot  be  ?    From  your  personal  experience,  do  you 


58 


not  think  all  such  wires  ought  to  be  put  underground  within 
the  districts  where  the  population  is  such  as  I  have  stated  ? 

A.  I  should  think  it  would  be  best  to  put  them  under- 
ground. 

O.  Do  you  not  think  it  would  be  wisest  on  the  part  of  the 
city  authorities  to  have  it  done  ? 

A.  That  brings  up  many  questions  of  the  expense  and  one 
thing  or  another.  It  would  be  a  very  good  thing  if  it  could 
be  done.    There  is  no  question  about  that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  fact  or  not  that  it  has  been  done  in 
Chicago  ? 

A.  They  have  underground  lines  in  Chicago  and  Washing- 
ton— underground  arc  lighting  lines  also  in  New  York  ? 

Q.  Have  they  any  overhead  lines  in  Chic^o  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know.    When  I  was  there  last  they  had. 

Q.  Have  they  not  recently  required  all  the  lines  to  be  put 
underground  ? 

A.  I  think  many  cities  have  required  all  the  lines  to  be 
put  undei^ound.  I  do  not  know  whether  they  have  accom- 
plished it  or  not  in  Chicago. 

Q.  How  is  it  in  New  York  ? 

A.  There  are  a  great  many  overhead  lines  there,  and  some 
wires  in  conduits. 

Q.  The  mayor  there  cut  the  poles  down,  did  he  not  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


STATEMENT  OF  MR.  OSTRAM. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  I  am  the  Philadelphia  agent  for  the  Johnstown  Com- 
pany, of  Johnstown,  who  manufacture  rails  for  street  rail- 
ways, and  construct  street  railways,  as  far  as  the  track  is  con- 
cerned. 

Q.  Does  your  business  make  you  familiar  with  the  different 
streets  in  a  number  of  the  cities  of  this  country,  on  which  the 
trolley  system  exists  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  more  or  less. 


59 


Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  streets  of  Boston  ? 

A.  I  am  not.    I  have  not  visited  Boston  since  I  have  been 
in  my  present  business. 

Q.  What  city  are  you  familiar  with  outside  of  Philadel- 
phia?   Are  you  familiar  with  Baltimore  ? 

A.  I  am  familiar  with  most  of  the  cities  on  the  Atlantic 
coast  from  Scranton  to  Key  West 

Q.  State  the  streets  that  you  know  of  in  other  cities,  of 
about  the  same  width  as  the  average  street  in  Philadelphia, 
on  which  the  trolley  system  is  in  actual  use. 

A.  In  Paterson,  N.  J.,  Mulberry  Street  is  twenty-three 
feet  seven  inches  wide.  In  Toledo,  Ohio,  Huron  Street  is 
twenty-six  feet  wide,  and  Oak  Street  is  twenty-one  feet 
eight  inches  from  curb  to  curb,  as  reported  by  our  chief 
engineer.  In  a  letter  received  by  him  this  morning  there  are 
measurements  taken  by  him  made  necessary  to  secure  a  spe- 
cial work,  and  the  curves  and  crosses  are  given.  In  Wilming- 
ton, Del.,  Front  Street  is  twenty-five  feet  wide,  and  there 
have  been  two  tracks  on  a  street  of  that  width. 

Q.  Two  trolley  wires  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  Ninth  Street,  Wilmington,  is  twenty-five 
feet ;  Eleventh  Street,  Wilmington,  twenty-five  feet ;  Albany, 
N.  Y.,  Steuben  Street,  twenty-six  feet ;  Beaver  Falls,  Pa., 
Tenth  Street,  twenty-six  feet :  Covington,  Ky.,  Third  Street, 
twenty-six  feet;  Indianapolis,  Ind.,  Brown  Street,  twenty- 
five  feet ;  Atlanta,  Ga.,  Richardson  Street,  twentj^-six  feet ; 
Chester,  Pa.,  Second  Street,  twenty-four  feet 

The  above  list  comprises  a  few  of  the  streets  that  the 
writer  has  personally  measured,  but  does  not  represent  any- 
thing like  as  complete  a  list  as  could  be  made,  if  time  were 
given  to  a  more  thorough  and  extended  canvass. 

Q.  What  is  the  width  of  Chestnut  Street,  Philadelphia, 

from  curb  to  curb  ? 

A.  I  measured  in  front  of  this  building  this  morning,  and 
it  is  twenty-six  feet  and  two  inches.  I  presume  it  is  intended 
for  twenty-six  feet  In  measuring  we  frequently  find,  in  one 
case,  a  curb  will  be  from  two  to  three  inches  in,  and  in  another 
place  it  will  be  narrowed. 


6o 


STATEMENT  OF  MR.  STERN. 

By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  I  am  the  representative  of  the  Edison  General  Electric 
Company.  I  have  here  cut-outs  for  the  purpose  of  protect- 
ing buildings  against  the  injurious  effects  of  fires. 

Q.  That  is,  buildings  into  which  electric  light  wires  run  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  in  my  hand  an  article  which  is  re- 
quired by  the  rules  and  r^ulations  of  all  the  boards  of  fire 
underwriters  in  the  country. 

Q.  Required  in  what  cases  ? 

A.  In  all  cases  where  electric  light  wires  are  brought  from 
the  street  into  the  building. 

Q.  Is  there  any  necessity  for  using  them  for  telephone  and 
telegraph  wires,  or  are  they  used  that  way  ? 

A.  They  are  slightly  modified  for  that  purpose. 

Q.  That  is,  for  electric  light  wires  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  entering  a  building. 

Q.  They  are  required  by  the  board  of  underwriters  of  all 
cities  where  electric  wires  are  used  ? 

A.  Yes ;  and  insurance  is  not  granted  on  any  building  or 
supposed  not  to  be,  unless  after  inspection  is  made  by  the  in- 
spector of  the  board  of  fire  underwriters.  Among  other  things, 
it  looks  for  this  thing  right  at  the  entrance  of  the  building. 

Q.  What  is  the  effect  of  that  thing  ?.  Is  it  possible  for  a  fire 
to  occur  ? 

A.  Absolutely  impossible  for  this  reason :  The  current  in 
passing  through  passes  through  a  small  piece  of  fuse  wire  that 
melts  at  a  very  low  temperature.  It  is  just  capable  of  carry- 
ing the  amount  of  current  necessary  to  do  the  work  for  that 
part.  In  case  of  a  heavier  current  coming  through,  either  be- 
cause of  a  cross  with  some  other  electric  light  wire,  or  a  trol- 
ley line,  or  anything  else  that  might  interfere,  this  being  the 
weakest  link  of  the  chain,  is  the  first  thing  to  go,  and  it  opens 
the  circuit. 

Q.  So  that,  if  an  accident  should  happen  by  reason  of  a 
storm  to  an  electric  light  wire,  which  should  fall  on  a  trolley 


6i 


wire,  that  would  make  it  impossible  for  fire  to  occur  in  that 
building  in  which  it  was  used  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  under  any  circumstances  whatever. 

Q.  What  is  the  cost  of  it  ? 

A.  Thirty  cents. 

Q.  And  a  man  cannot  have  an  insurance  on  his  prop- 
erty who  has  an  electric  light  wire  running  into  his  building 
without  the  use  of  that  contrivance  ? 

A.  Certainly  not.  All  contractors  make  a  clause  or  a  sec- 
tion in  their  contract  to  that  effect. 

Q.  So  that,  in  actual  practice,  there  is  practically  no  trouble 
or  danger  from  accidents,  such  as  have  been  spoken  of,  by 
reason  of  an  electric  light  wire  falling  on  a  trolley  wire  in  any 
house  in  which  an  electric  light  wire  runs  ? 

A.  It  is  absolutely  impossible,  if  it  is  done  according  to  the 
rules  and  regulations  of  the  board  of  fire  underwriters. 

Q.  Is  there  any  trouble  about  putting  that  on  telephone 
and  telegraph  wires? 

A.  No  ;  they  have  a  slightly  modified  form.  This  is  one  of 
many  types  used  for  that  purpose.  The  wire  coming  from 
the  outside  of  the  building  passes  in  through  a  small  helix, 
down  through  that  rod  to  the  telephone,  and  with  a  normal 
current  it  remains.  In  the  presence  of  an  abnormal  large 
current,  that  is  energized  and  acts  as  I  now  show. 

Q.  What  does  that  cost  ? 

A.  I  think  that  that  sells  for  about  seventy-five  cents ;  I  am 
not  positive  as  to  the  exact  price ;  there  are  a  great  many  of 
these  in  use.  ' 

Q.  So  that,  whatever  danger  there  may  be  from  a  telegraph 
or  telephone  wire  falling  on  a  trolley  wire,  it  can  be  obviated 
by  the  use  of  that  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  cost  is  not  over  seventy-five  cents  to  make  it  impos- 
sible for  an  accident  to  happen  to  any  house  by  reason  of  con- 
tact between  the  telephone  or  telegraph  or  burglar-alarm 

wires,  and  the  trolley  wire  ? 

A.  That  is  so,  and  I  will  be  pleased  to  take  a  contract  to 
cover  the  entire  city  at  twenty  cents  a  wire  if  you  use  this 
article  that  I  have  here. 


62 


Cross-examination, 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  destruction  of  the 
switch-board  of  the  telephone  system  in  Albany  in  March, 
1 89 1,  caused  by  a  fire,  caused  or  supposed  to  have  been  caused, 
by  electricity  ? 

A.  I  am  not  familiar  with  that  particular  switch-board. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  reports  that  were  made  of 
the  fire  that  occurred  there  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  don't  know  anything  about  that  ? 

A  No,  sir ;  except  that  I  know  that  there  was  such  a  fire, 
but  I  never  went  to  the  trouble  to  inquire,  because  I  have 
always  considered  that  fire  to  a  switch-board  was  the  result  of 
negligence  entirely.  This  is  a  thing  that  has  been  known  in 
the  arts  for  years. 

'  Q.  Then  you  think  that,  if  there  was  a  fire,  it  would  be 
simply  n^ligence  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  entirely  so. 

Q.  You  know  that  there  are  a  great  many  reports  pub- 
lished from  time  to  time  of  similar  accidents  to  that  which 
occurred  in  Albany  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  taken  the  trouble  to  see  whether  they  were 
caused  by  similar  negligence  or  not  ? 
A.  I  have  ;  yes,  sir. 
Q.  That  is  usually  the  case,  is  it  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  you  will  find  preventatives  used  in 
every  one  of  those  cities  where  they  have  had  trouble.  After 
the  horse  was  stolen  they  generally  locked  the  stable-door. 

Q.  You  do  not  think,  then,  that  there  is  any  necessity  for 
any  guard  wires,  or  any  act  of  prevention,  except  this  little 
machine  which  you  have  described  ? 

A.  I  should  use  guard  wires  if  I  was  operating  a  railway 
system  for  my  own  protection,  because  every  link  that  would 
come  across  there  would  mean  so  much  coal  out  of  my  coal 
pile. 


63 


Q.  How  many  guard  wires  would  you  use  along  one  of  our 
streets  for  the  protection  of  a  trolley  wire  ? 

A.  That  would  depend  entirely  on  how  many  wires  hap- 
pened to  be  likely  to  fall  in  case  of  a  sleet  storm.    That  is  alL 

Q.  You  are  familiar  with  the  city,  are  you  not  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  fairly  so. 

Q.  Where  there  are  forty  or  fifty  wires  running  along  a 
street,  and  at  the  crossings,  perhaps,  double  or  treble  that  num- 
ber, what  would  you  say  would  be  a  proper  system  to  protect  ? 

A.  Do  you  mean  fifty  wires  running  parallel  ? 

Q.  I  mean  simply  running  parallel  or  transversely. 
A.  Under  conditions  of  that  kind  I  would  be  apt  not  to 
put  any  on. 
Q.  Why  not? 

A.  Because  I  would  not  want  to  put  up  a  structure  that 
would  hold  all  those  fifty  wires  in  case  they  dropped. 

Q.  You  would  not  think  that  having  all  those  wires  there 
would  render  an  accident  more  liable  to  occur  than  if  there 
was  only  one  ? 

A.  Well,  I  wouldn't  say  necessarily ;  no,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  think  there  would  be  some  reason  if  there  were 
only  a  few  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  should  think  so,  and  they  were  put  up  upon 
weak  and  small  supports. 

Q.  I  have  understood  you  to  say  that  where  there  were  so 
many  of  those  other  wires,  as  I  have  described,  you  would  not 
undertake  to  do  it,  because  it  would  be  necessary  to  put  up  a 
heavy  structure  to  protect  against  such  a  large  volume  of  wires. 
Can  you  not  come  down  to  any  number  that  you  consider 
smaller,  against  which  you  think  it  would  be  necessary  to 
put  this  thing  up  ? 

A.  I  wouldn't  base  that  upon  number  at  all ;  for  instance, 
here  wires  are  scattered  here,  there,  and  everywhere ;  on  the 
house-tops,  which  are  objectionable  to  firemen  and  everybody 
else.  Things  that  are  weak  and  liable  to  fall,  and  for  my  own 
protection  1  should  put  up  guard  wires,  but  in  no  case  would 
I  allow  them  to  exceed  three  in  number  on  a  double  trolley 
line. 


64 


Q.  Running  parallel  with  it  or  at  right  angles  with  it  ? 

A.  Parallel  with  the  line  itself. 

Q.  Would  you  not  then  have  to  have  wires  running  at  right 
angles  in  order  to  support  those  ? 
A.  No  necessarily. 
Q.  How  would  you  support  them  ? 

A.  With  insulators  upon  the  original  span  wire,  if  necessary. 

Q.  Taking  our  streets,  where  I  suppose  it  is  not  probable 
that  they  will  undertake  to  run  the  poles  from  the  centre  of 
the  streets  but  from  the  sides  of  them,  how  then  would  you 
support  the  trolley  wire  and  also  those  guard  wires  of  which 
you  have  spoken  ? 

A.  Your  span  wire  moves  from  pole  to  pole,  aad  is  carried 
from  pole  to  pole  either  side  of  the  street.  From  that  you 
hang  an  insulator  which  is  a  distance,  say,  seven  inches  below 
the  line  of  the  span  wire  itself.  There  is  nothing  in  the 
world  to  hinder  me  from  putting  two  insulators  upon  my 
span,  where  it  would  be  seven  inches  above  the  trolley  wire, 
and  upon  that  carrying  a  guard  wire. 

Q.  How  many  wires  would  that  make  in  any  street  accord- 
ing to  your  system — I  mean  at  any  given  point  ? 

A.  What  do  you  mean  by  my  system  ? 

Q.  I  mean  what  you  have  suggested. 

A.  In  addition  to  the  trolley  wire,  it  means  three  guard 
wires  on  a  two  trolley  line  on  a  double-track  road,  and  the 
span  wire.  The  feed  wires  depend  entirely  upon  circum- 
stances. It  might  be  carried  on  a  pole  or  underneath  the 
ground. 

Q.  How  many  feed  wires  would  there  be — one  ? 

A.  That  would  depend  entirely  on  the  number  of  cars  run, 
the  speed,  the  grades  on  which  they  were  to  run,  and  the 
length. 

By  Mr.  Shapley  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  insurance  company  in  the  United 
States,  or  any  town  or  city  in  which  there  is  a  trolley  system, 
that  has  ever  increased  the  rate  of  insurance  on  any  property 
to  the  extent  of  one  penny,  by  reason  of  the  erection  and  the 

operation  of  the  trolley  system  ? 
A.  Absolutely  none. 


65 

m 

STATEMENT  OF  MR.  FIELD. 

By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  Electrical  engineer  and  contractor. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  that  business  ? 
A.  About  eight  years. 

Q.  You  are  the  president  of  what  association  ? 

A.  Of  the  Field  Engineering  Company. 

Q.  What  electrical  roads  have  you  been  engineer  for  ? 

A.  Buffalo,  Newark,  Paterson,  Trenton,  and  a  number  of 
others  around  the  country. 

Q.  So  that  you  are  thoroughly  familiar  with  the  trolley  sys- 
tem, are  you  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  do  you  know  about  the  Buda-Festh  conduit 
system  that  has  been  spoken  of  ? 

A.  We  had  heard  a  good  deal  about  it,  and  last  winter  we 
went  to  the  expense  of  sending  one  of  our  engineers  over 
there  to  make  an  examination  of  it  and  report  to  our  company 
for  the  purposes  of  our  business.  We  found,  as  the  result  of 
that,  that  the  road  had  been  put  in  as  an  experiment,  and  had 
been  carried  on  as  an  experiment — had  been  carried  on  a  year 
by  them  as  an  experiment  there — and  that  there  had  been  a 
continuous  series  of  changes  from  the  beginning  to  try  and 
remedy  defects  and  troubles  that  they  had  had  with  it  The 
result  of  our  report  was  that  we  could  not  recommend  it  to 
anybody  to  experiment  for  the  present,  in  this  country. 

Q.  If  it  was  a  practical  success — if  it  could  be  used — I 
should  think  you  would  be  too  glad  to  have  it,  and  would 
recommend  it  ? 

A.  Yes,  we  would  put  it  in  quickly,  for  it  would  help  us 
with  our  work. 

Q.  What  were  the  defects  found  in  it  there  ?  Could  it  be 
run  in  the  winter  time  ?  • 

A.  They  had  had  trouble  with  it  in  the  winter  right  along. 

The  climate  there  is  much  milder  than  here  and  different  in 

many  other  respects.    The  local  conditions  there  are  dififer- 


66 


cnt  from  almost  any  city  in  this  country  and  everything  tends 
to  help  it  to  its  advant^e  there,  as  to  locality,  &c. 
Q  Do  you  know  the  length  of  it  ? 

A.  It  has  been  extended  so  that  it  is  now,  I  believe,  over 

ten  miles  long. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  carriages  and  wagons  use  tne 
track  upon  which  the  cars  run  ? 

A  It  was  impossible  for  them  to  use  the  tracks,  i  he  rail 
is  such  a  one  that  no  city  would  let  us  put  it  down  m  this 
country.    A  wagon  cannot  track  on  it. 

Q.  What  kind  of  a  street  or  streets  is  it  used  on  there  ? 

A.  Their  paved  streets  partially. 

Q.  Narrow  or  wide  streets  ? 
•    A.  Their  wide  streets  as  a  rule,  so  that  a  wagon  can  keep 

away  from  the  track. 

Q.  Please  describe  what  is  the  peculiarity  of  the  rail  usea 

there 

A.  *  The  rail  is  a  kind  of  double  T-rail,  like  we  use  on  steam 
railroad  work  in  this  country.    That  is  the  nearest  thing  we 

hrvetoit  ^ 
Q  The  same  as  the  double  T-rail  of  the  steam  roads  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir;  with  a  centre  grooved  wheel,  and  the  slot  is 

in  the  rail.  , 
Q.  What  about  the  storage  battery  system  ?    Do  you  know 

of  any  road  in  the  country  in  which  it  is  used  ? 

A  There  has  never  been  a  road  in  which  the  storage  bat- 
tery has  been  accepted  by  it  and  operated  by  it.  When  it 
has  ever  been  put  in,  as  long  as  it  was  running  it  was  kept  there 
until  the  pocket-book  of  the  company  that  put  it  in  had  be- 
come exhausted. 

g.  In  other  words,  it  has  always  been  put  there  by  the  ex- 
ploiters of  the  particular  battery  ? 

A  Yes  sir. 

Q.  It  has  been  put  there  at  their  expense,  as  an  expcri- 
n^jent,  to  have  it  tested,  in  order  to  try  to  have  companies 

adopt  it  ?  ,  J  • 

A.  Yes,  sir.   They  are  continually  breaking  down  and  in 

trouble,  and  it  wants  very  favorable  conditions  for  them  to 
operate  at  all. 


67 


Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  conduit  system  has  been 
tried  and  experimented  here  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  it  has  been  experimented  on  in  four  or  five 
different  parts  of  the  country — Cleveland,  Pittsburgh,  and 
one  or  two  other  places. 

Q.  And  always  abandoned  as  an  impossibility  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  The  West  End  Road  in  Boston  went  into  it 
with  a  desire  to  have  it  succeed,  and  put  down  five  miles, 
spending  several  hundred  thousand  dollars  trying  to  make  it 
a  success,  and  the  city  at  the  end  of  two  years  gave  them 
overhead  franchises  to  replace  it  there,  and  in  the  other  parts 
of  the  city,  as  it  delayed  people  and  the  public  there  by 
breaking  down  from  storms. 

Q.  You  have  erected  a  number  of  trolley  roads  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Take  the  streets  of  Philadelphia.  You  know  about  the 
lengths  of  the  squares.  How  many  poles  would  there  be 
erected  on  a  block  in  Philadelphia,  and  how  far  apart  ? 

A.  One  every  one  hundred  and  twenty-five  or  one  hundred 
and  forty  feet. 

Q.  It  has  been  said  by  one  gentleman  who  professed  to 
have  some  knowledge  on  this  subject,  that  the  poles  would 
have  to  be  seventy-five  feet  apart  only? 

A.  I  have  built  the  heaviest  kinds  of  lines  in  the  largest 
towns,  and  I  never  used  a  pole,  unless  it  was  on  a  curve,  less 
than  one  hundred  and  twenty-five  feet.  It  comes  down  to  a 
question  of  good  construction — poor  work  for  little  towns 
costing  ^locx)  and  ^2000  a  mile,  and  good  work  for  larger 
towns  costing  |l8ooo  or  |lio,ooa 

Q.  Which  is  the  cheapest — ^to  put  poles  seventy-five  or 
one  hundred  and  twenty-five  feet  apart  ? 

A.  To  put  them  seventy-five  feet  apart. 

Q.  It  is  cheaper  to  put  them  that  close  together  than  one 
hundred  and  twenty-five  feet  apart  ? 

A,  Yes,  sir ;  you  can  put  up  a  lighter  line; 

Q.  In  your  experience,  and  from  your  knowledge  on  the 
subject,  what  is  the  extent  of  danger  to  life,  of  which  so  much 
has  been  said,  and  about  which  so  much  talk  has  occurred  ? 


68 


A.  No  passenger  on  any  electric  car  has  ever  had  a  shock 
from  riding  on  them  that  there  is  any  record  of,  that  I  know 
of.  The  employes  in  the  station  handling  the  motors,  &c., 
nearly  every  one  has  had  a  shock,  and  they  are  all  alive  to- 
day and  in  good  health. 

Q.  Is  there  any  way  in  which  a  person,  not  a  workman 
connected  with  the  line,  could  by  any  possibility  come  in  con- 
tact with  that  wire  eighty  feet  above  the  ground  except  by 
climbing  up  and  taking  hold  of  it  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Or  in  the  very  rare  case  in  which  a  wire  might  break 
and  strike  him  ? 

A.  If  the  wire  broke  and  came  down  it  would  be  immedi- 
ately cut  off  at  the  station.  It  would  be  a  dead  wire.  In  any 
well-built  system  the  wires  are  so  arranged  and  cut  up  into 
sections  that  if  by  any  accident  any  wire  should  be  broken 
down,  it  would  be  immediately  cut  out  at  the  station,  or 
would  be  a  dead  wire,  and  could  give  no  trouble  at  all. 

Q.  Cut  out  automatically  ? 

A.  Automatically,  or  by  hand-switch,  either  one.  It  can 
be  made  automatically,  if  desired. 

Q.  Suppose  a  wire  touched  the  ground  before  any  man  or 
horse  came  in  contact  with  it,  what  would  be  the  result  ? 

A.  If  it  touched  the  earth  or  wet  ground,  it  would  bum  off 
and  hang  loose  above  the  ground. 

Q.  Would  the  current  pass  into  the  ground  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  for  the  moment,  until  the  wire  was  burned  off, 
and  then  it  would  be  disconnected. 

Q.  So  that,  even  in  case  a  trolley  wire  should  break  down, 
it  could  not,  by  any  possibility,  as  I  understand  you,  even 
shock  a  person  unless  he  came  in  contact  with  it  before  it 
had  touched  the  ground  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  just  it. 

Q.  That  is  to  say,  that  unless  that  wire  touched  some  man 
or  some  horse  passing  on  the  street  before  it  touched  the 
ground,  he  could  not  by  any  possibility  even  receive  a  shock, 
for  the  reason  that  the  moment  it  falls  to  the  ground  the 
current  passes  off?  • 


69 


A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known  or  heard  of  a  well-authenticated 
case  that  can  be  relied  on,  in  which  such  an  accident  hap- 
pened as  a  person  getting  shocked  or  hurt  on  the  street 
by  reason  of  any  line  coming  in  contact  with  a  trolley  wire 
before  the  current  had  been  discharged  into  the  ground  ? 

A.  No,  sir.  We  see  cases  mentioned  in  the  newspapers 
once  in  a  while,  but  when  they  are  examined  they  are  cleared 
up  and  found  to  be  a  mistake  of  the  reporter  wanting  to  be 
in  too  much  of  a  hurry  to  get  some  news. 

Q.  Where  such  accidents  have  happened  they  have  been 
very  largely  with  electrict  light  wires  ? 

A.  Very  lat^eiy  caused  by  other  wires  falling  over  them. 

Q.  And  blamed  on  the  trolley  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known  of  the  case  of  a  fire  happening 
to  a  building  along  a  street  in  which  the  trolley  wire  system 
is  used,  which  was  caused  directly  or  indirectly  by  the  trolley 
system  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Suppose  a  trolley  wire  should  break  and  drop  on  the 
stones  instead  of  on  the  rail,  what  would  be  the  effect  as  to 
the  current  ? 

A.  Do  you  mean  in  wet  or  dry  weather  ? 

Q.  I  mean  in  either. 

A.  There  might  be  a  few  little  sparks,  of  course,  but  there 
would  be  no  damage  or  anything  done. 

Q.  What  I  mean,  would  the  current  pass  down  through  the 
stones  into  the  earth  or  would  it  be  a  live  wire  ? 

A.  On  a  dry  day  it  would  not  have  much  passage  of  cur- 
rent at  all. 

Q.  But  it  would  be  cut  off  at  the  station  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Within  how  many  seconds  or  minutes  ? 
A.  Within  two  or  three  seconds. 

Q.  It  would  be  cut  off  even  if  the  current  did  not  pass 
down  into  the  earth  by  reason  of  its  being  a  dry  day  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


Q.  If  it  was  a  wet  day  and  there  was  moisture  on  the 

stones,  what  then  ? 

A.  It  would  be  just  the  same  as  though  it  hit  the  rail. 
Q.  It  would  pass  down  instantly  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  there  is  no  possibility  of  a  man  being  hurt  by 
the  breaking  of  a  wire,  except  in  the  extremely  improbable 
case  of  the  wire  striking  him  at  some  place  in  the  body  be- 
fore it  would  touch  the  ground  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  A  Member  : 

Q.  How  long  has  that  cut-off  been  in  operation  ? 
A.  There  are  a  number  of  places  where  they  have  been  us- 
ing it  for  the  last  year. 
By  Another  Member  : 

Q.  What  would  be  the  effect  if  a  wire  dropped  between 
two  poles  and  did  not  strike  the  ground,  coming  within  six 
or  eight  inches  of  it  ? 

A.  Nothing  would  happen. 

Q.  It  would  be  a  live  wire  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.    Nothing  would  happen  at  all. 

Q.  How  about  if  anybody  came  along  there  ? 

A.  If  it  was  a  wet  day,  and  you  took  hold  of  it,  you  might 
get  a  little  shock. 

Cross-examination. 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  You  consider  the  trolley  a  very  innocent  sort  of  thing, 

don't  you  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  also  consider  that  these  newspapers  that  have  been 
publishing  all  these  fearful  accounts  of  accidents  have  simple 
been  exaggerating  or  drawing  upon  their  imagination,  do 
you  ? 

A.  That  thing  has  been  thrashed  out  in  a  good  many 
hearings  and  examinations,  and  it  has  been  found  invariably 
that  those  accounts  were  exaggerated  and  dfd  not  represent 
the  exact  facts  as  they  occurred. 


71 

Q.  How  do  you  account  for  that  ?  Do  you  suppose  that 
all  the  newspaper  reporters  who  get  up  these  accounts  are 
very  ignorant  of  their  business  ? 

A.  They  are  usually,  as  a  rule,  ig^norant  of  the  electric 
business,  and  want  to  get  sensational  items. 

Q.  They  are  ignorant,  then,  of  the  subject-matter  about 
which  they  are  writing,  are  they  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  that  they  are  careless  ? 

A.  That  depends  upon  circumstances  and  upon  the  man. 

Q.  I  mean  as  to  the  facts  which  they  are  undertaking  to 

give  to  the  public  ? 

A.  A  good  many  times  ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then  you  would  say,  taking  it  as  a  whole,  that  newspa- 
per accounts  as  to  dangers  and  accidents  in  connection  with 
the  trolley  system,  are  simply  a  series  of  misrepresentations  ? 
Do  you  mean  to  say  that  ? 

A.  There  have  not  been  a  large  number  of  those  reports. 
They  have  been  very  few  in  number.  They  are  repeated 
over,  and  one  case  is  made  into  two  or  three  cases. 

Q.  Then  you  think  that  in  this  respect  newspaper  publica- 
tions are  either  absolutely  false  or  totally  unqualified,  do  you  ? 

A.  In  a  measure.  I  say  in  general  the  facts  in  those  cases 
are  exaggerated  very  largely. 

Q.  You  do  know  the  fact  that  there  are  constantly  pub- 
lications in  the  newspapers  about  these  things  ? 

A.  Once  in  a  while ;  yes,  sir.  • 

Q.  Don't  they  occur  frequently  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  read  the  newspapers  very  often  } 
A.  Every  day. 

Q.  Yet  you  know  say  that  the  publications  of  these  acci- 
dents and  dangers  from  the  trolley  are  numerous  in  the 
papers  ? 

A.  I  claim  this:  That  taking  the  amount  of  use  of  the 
trolley  wire,  as  compared  with  other  uses  and  forces  that  we 
have  in  the  present  day,  the  accidents  from  the  trolley  wire 
are  a  great  deal  smaller  in  percents^e  than  from  any  other  uses 


70 


Q.  If  it  was  a  wet  day  and  there  was  moisture  on  the 

stones,  what  then  ? 

A.  It  would  be  just  the  same  as  though  it  hit  the  rail. 
Q.  It  would  pass  down  instantly  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  there  is  no  possibility  of  a  man  being  hurt  by 
the  breaking  of  a  wire,  except  in  the  extremely  improbable 
case  of  the  wire  striking  him  at  some  place  in  the  body  be- 
fore it  would  touch  the  ground  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  A  Member  : 

Q.  How  long  has  that  cut-off  been  in  operation  ? 
A.  There  are  a  number  of  places  where  they  have  been  us- 
ing it  for  the  last  year. 

By  Another  Member  : 

Q.  What  would  be  the  effect  if  a  wire  dropped  between 
two  poles  and  did  not  strike  the  ground,  coming  within  six 
or  eight  inches  of  it  ? 

A.  Nothing  would  happen. 

Q.  It  would  be  a  live  wire  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.    Nothing  would  happen  at  all. 

Q.  How  about  if  anybody  came  along  there  ? 

A.  If  it  was  a  wet  day,  and  you  took  hold  of  it,  you  might 
get  a  little  shock. 

Cross-examination. 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  You  consider  the  trolley  a  very  innocent  sort  of  thing, 

don't  you  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  also  consider  that  these  newspapers  that  have  been 
publishing  all  these  fearful  accounts  of  accidents  have  simple 
been  exaggerating  or  drawing  upon  their  imagination,  do 
you  ? 

A.  That  thing  has  been  thrashed  out  in  a  good  many 
hearings  and  examinations,  and  it  has  been  found  invariably 
that  those  accounts  were  exaggerated  and  did  not  represent 
the  exact  facts  as  they  occurred. 


Q.  How  do  you  account  for  that  ?  Do  you  suppose  that 
all  the  newspaper  reporters  who  get  up  these  accounts  are 
very  ignorant  of  their  business  ? 

A.  They  are  usually,  as  a  rule,  ignorant  of  the  electric 

business,  and  want  to  get  sensational  items. 

Q.  They  are  ignorant,  then,  of  the  subject-matter  about 
which  they  are  writing,  are  they  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  that  they  are  careless  ? 

A.  That  depends  upon  circumstances  and  upon  the  man. 
Q.  I  mean  as  to  the  facts  which  they  are  undertaking  to 
give  to  the  public  ? 

A.  A  good  many  times ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then  you  would  say,  taking  it  as  a  whole,  that  newspa- 
per accounts  as  to  dangers  and  accidents  in  connection  with 
the  trolley  system,  are  simply  a  series  of  misrepresentations  ? 

Do  you  mean  to  say  that  ? 

A.  There  have  not  been  a  large  number  of  those  reports. 
They  have  been  very  few  in  number.  'They  are  repeated 
over,  and  one  case  is  made  into  two  or  three  cases. 

Q.  Then  you  think  that  in  this  respect  newspaper  publica- 
tions are  either  absolutely  false  or  totally  unqualified,  do  you  ? 

A.  In  a  measure.  I  say  in  general  the  facts  in  those  cases 
are  exaggerated  very  largely. 

Q.  You  do  know  the  fact  that  there  are  constantly  pub- 
lications in  the  newspapers  about  these  things  ? 

A.  Once  in  a  while ;  yes,  sir.  * 

Q.  Don't  they  occur  frequently  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  read  the  newspapers  very  often  ? 
A.  Every  day. 

Q.  Yet  you  know  say  that  the  publications  of  these  acci- 
dents and  dangers  from  the  trolley  are  not  numerous  in  the 
papers  ? 

A.  I  claim  this:  That  taking  the  amount  of  use  of  the 
trolley  wire,  as  compared  with  other  uses  and  forces  that  we 
have  in  the  present  day,  the  accidents  from  the  trolley  wire 
are  a  great  deal  smaller  in  percentage  than  from  any  other  uses 


72 


and  forces  that  we  have,  whether  this  system  or  anything  else, 
and  they  pay  no  attention  to  the  other  things  and  magnify 
these.    I  can  refer  you  to  accidents  without  number. 

Q.  Why  do  you  think  the  newspaper  reports  are  mainly 
confined  to  trolley  accidents  ? 

A.  It  is  generally  in  places  where  the  trolley  has  not  been 
introduced.  Where  it  has  been  introduced  you  will  find  that 
the  papers  invariably  are  using  it 

Q.  Have  you  been  reading  the  Albany  papers  ? 

A.  I  read  them  very  seldom. 

Q.  Have  you  read  any  of  the  Boston  papers  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  once  in  a  while. 

Q.  Don't  you  find  them  sometimes  attacking  the  trolley  ? 
A.  One  or  two  newspapers  do ;  yes,  sir. 
Q.  Pretty  severely  ? 

A.  I  know  that  they  are  trying  to  hurry  them  up  to  get 
them  to  introdnce  it  in  other  parts  of  the  city. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  that  some  of  the  newspapers  there  are 
attacking  it  ? 

A.  One  or  two,  I  believe,  do  sometimes ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then  you  think  that  the  statements  which  you  sec  now 
and  then  in  the  newspapers  attacking  the  trolley  sire  either 
due  to  ignorance,  or  to  misrepresentation,  or  to  carelessness  in 
obtaining  information  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 


STATEMENT  OF  MR.  HIGGINS. 

By  Mr.  Shaple\  : 

Q.  What  is  your  business  ? 

A.  I  am  the  general  manager  of  the  Short  Electric  Rail- 
way Company  of  Cleveland. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  electric  roads  in  this  country  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  so  ? 

A.  About  four  years. 

Q.  You  have  a  road  in  Cleveland  ? 


73 

A.  No,  sir ;  the  company  with  which  I  am  connected  is  a 
manufacturing  corporation. 

Q.  You  do  not  erect  the  trolley  system  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  we  erect  it,  but  we  do  not  run  it  afterwards. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  it  in  other  cities  besides  Cleve- 
land— with  its  operation  and  its  advantages  and  disadvantages  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  the  literature  on  the  subject? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  the  opinions  of  experts  and 
railroad  men  generally  on  the  subject  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir.- 

Q.  Before  speaking  of  the  trolley  system,  you  have  heard 
the  testimony  of  other  witnesses  with  regard  to  storage  bat- 
teries. Have  you  ever  heard  of  a  conipany  that  has  run,  as  a 
success,  the  storage  batteiy  ? 

A.  Never. 

Q.  Is  there  any  company  in  the  United  States  that  is  doing 
it  outside  of  the  one  in  Washington,  that  has  been  spoken  of? 
A.  I  .do  not  know  of  any. 

Q.  You  would  be  likely  to  know  of  them,  if  there  were  any  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  would  be  your  business  to  know  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Taking  the  conduit  system,  is  there  any  such  system 
known  to  you  or  to  your  profession  that  is  practicable  in  this 
country  ? 

A.  No,  sir;  absolutely  none. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  way  that  you  know  of  in  running  a 

surface  road  except  by  the  horse,  the  steam,  or  the  trolley 
system  ? 

A.  There  is  also  the  cable  system.  There  is  no  other 
system. 

Q.  State  your  experience  briefly  in  regard  to  the  advantages 

and  the  alleged  disadvantages  or  objections  to  this  system. 

A.  I  think  one  point  has  perhaps  not  been  brought  out ;  at 
least  1  have  not  heard  it,  though  I  have  not  been  here  very 
much.   The  great  advantage,  in  my  mind,  of  the  trolley 


74 


system  is  found  in  the  complete  control  of  the  car.  In  the 
trolley  system  you  have  one  feature  which  tends  much  to  that 
control  better  than  any  other,  inasmuch  as  you  can  reverse  it 
instantly  in  case  of  threatened  danger.  By  a  simple  move- 
ment of  the  switch  the  current  can  be  turned  on  with  a  force 
four  or  five  times  as  great  as  is  used  in  propelling  it — a  force 
so  great  that  while  the  car  is  moving  forward  the  wheels  may 
be  spinning  backward  in  the  attempt  to  get  a  grip  on  the  rail. 
That  means,  of  course,  that  besides  having  the  whole  brake- 
part  of  the  car  available,  you  have  the  electrical  part  avail- 
able for  running  it  backward,  and  in  one  case  where  a  man 
had  been  knocked  down  by  the  dash-board  of  an  electric  car, 
before  he  reached  the  first  motor  the  car  was  stopped  and 
reversed.  That,  however,  would  not  be  true  if  it  was  going 
at  a  rapid  rate  of  speed.  It  would  be  anywhere  from  a  car 
length.    A  car  could  usually  be  stopped  in  a  car  length. 

Q.  In  other  words,  suppose  a  car  was  running  in  a  crowded 
street  where  it  would  have  to  run  at  the  rate  of  not  over  six 
miles  an  hour,  and  people  were  passing,  the  advantage  that  it 
has  in  that  respect  over  the  horse-car  would  be,  as  I  under- 
stand you,  this :  In  the  horse-car  you  have  no  power  to  stop 
it  except  the  power  of  the  brake,  whereas  in  the  trolley  car 
3'ou  have  the  power  of  the  brake,  and  added  to  that  the  full 
power  of  the  motor. 

A.  The  very  enormous  power  of  the  motor — ^as  I  say,  three 
or  four  times  as  great  as  is  used  in  propelling  the  car  forward. 
There  is  a  familiar  electrical  reason  for  that  which  it  is  not 
necessary  to  explain  here. 

Q.  You  have  heard  the  statements  of  other  experts  here  in 
regard  to  accidents.  You  would  be  likely  to  know,  I  suppose, 
of  well  authenticated  cases  of  accident  that  have  happened, 
would  you  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  State  any  cases  that  you  have  ever  heard  of  in  the  two 
hundred  and  fifty  cities  with  seven  thousand  cars,  either  ac- 
tually built  or  being  put  on  the  four  thousand  miles  of  tracks  of 
this  system.  State  any  accidents  that  you  have  ever  heard 
of  to  any  one  outside  of  the  workmen,  on  this  trolley  S3^tem. 


75 


A.  The  question  of  danger  comes  right  down  to  this : 
When  the  trolley  system  was  first  introduced  and  started,  it 

was  foreseen  that  the  great  objection  to  it  in  the  minds  of  the 
public  would  be  the  question  of  a  bare  overhead  wire.  It 
was  seen  also  that  that  objection  must  be  overcome  if  the 
system  was  to  be  made  a  commercial  success,  by  making  the 
pressure  so  low  as  not  to  be  dangerous  to  life.  Now,  as  a 
matter  of  fact,  there  has  never  been,  to  my  knowledge,  and  I 
believe  I  can  say  positively,  a  case  of  deadly  accident  from 
the  trolley  system.  That,  of  course,  is  negative  testimony. 
On  the  other  side,  as  positive  testimony,  I  could  go  out  to-day 
and  get  the  affidavit  of  thousands  or  more  people  who 
are  employed  in  making  the  motors,  and  right  amongst  the 
machinery  in  the  stations,  that  they  have  taken  a  full  shock 
with  only  momentary  inconvenience.  I  have  myself  known 
a  number  of  cases  of  that  sort  where  the  full  shock  has  been 
taken.  As  far  as  the  question  of  horses  is  concerned,  there 
have  been  a  few  records  of  where  horses  have  been  killed  by 
the  current. 

Q.  State  the  outside  number,  including  every  doubtful 
case. 

A.  I  have  never  known  myself  of  more  than  three  or  four 
well  authenticated  cases.  I  have  myself  been  present  at  an 
experiment,  which  would  perhaps  be  of  a  little  value  here, 
where  a  worn-out  street-car  horse  was  put  into  a  closed  stall  and 
a  wire  wound  around  his  body  several  times.  He*  was  placed 
upon  an  iron  dash-board,  so  that  all  four  feet  rested  upon  it, 
making  a  first-rate  electrical  circuit.  The  ground  wire  of  a 
dynamo  was  connected  to  this,  and  five  hundred  and  ten 
volts,  or  a  little  over,  were  administered  to  the  horse.  He 
jumped  and  started.  It  was  on  for  about  fifteen  seconds,  I 
think.  After  the  result  of  the  thing  he  was  led  off  as  good 
as  new.  I  believe  the  stableman  said  the  current  had  a  sort 
of  laxative  effect  on  him  for  a  few  hours.  That  was  the  only 
result    That  was  done  twice. 

There  are  some  horses  very  sensitive,  the  same  as  men  are, 
to  a  current,  and  I  think  it  quite  possible  that  some  horses 
would  have  a  nervous  system  which  would  make  it  impossible 


to  administer  that  without  death.  At  the  same  time,  it  is 
very  rarely  in  any  case  of  that  sort  that  it  comes  up  in 
practice. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  of  a  horse  taking  a  step-ladder  and 
climbing  up  eighteen  feet  in  the  air  to  get  hold  of  a  trolley 
wire? 

A.  Not  outside  of  a  circus. 

Q.  Then  the  only  way  in  which  a  horse  could  possibly  be 
injured  would  be  where  the  trolley  wire  would  break? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  • 

Q.  The  horse,  of  course,  cannot  get  to  the  wire,  and  the  wire 
cannot  get  to  the  horse,  unless  it  breaks  ? 

A.  That  is  true. 

Q.  What  is  the  result,  if  a  wire  breaks,  with  the  appliances 
used  for  the  purpose  of  cutting  off  the  current  instantly  ? 

A.  If  a  wire  should  fall  upon  the  ground,  as  has  been  stated, 
it  would  be  automatically  cut  off. 

Q.  The  current  would  pass  into  the  ground  instantly  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  wire  would  be  a  dead  wire,  that  you  could  put  into 
your  mouth  with  safety  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  would  not  hesitate,  if  I  put  up  the  appliances 
and  the  whole  matter,  to  go  up  and  take  hold  of  a  wire  in 
that  way,  and  it  would  make  no  difference  in  use  whether  the 
wire  should  break  in  the  middle  between  two  poles  or  not, 
supposing  that  only  a  part  of  it  should  remain  only  six  or 
eight  inches  above  the  ground.  The  other  half,  in  the  fall, 
would  strike  the  ground  and  cut  out  a  whole  section  of  a 
thousand  feet,  so  that  a  wire  suspended  above  the  track  would 
be  dead,  the  same  as  the  wire  which  touched  the  ground. 

Q.  If  I  understand  you,  it  is  impossible  for  a  horse  to  be 
hurt,  or  a  human  being  to  be  hurt,  or  even  shocked,  except  in 
the  extremely  improbable  case  that  this  wire  should  just 
happen  to  strike  some  horse  or  man  before  it  touched  th^ 
ground  at  any  place  ? 

A.  If  the  circuit  is  properly  put  up. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known,  and  I  do  not  speak  of  your  per- 
sonal knowledge,  but  of  cases  which  have  been  brought  to 


77 


your  attention,  of  an  accident  from  fire  to  a  house  on  any 
street  on  the  thousands  of  miles  on  which  this  system  is  used, 
due  directly  or  indirectly  to  the  use  of  the  trolley  wire  ? 

A*  I  know  of  nothing  personally  in  that  way.  It  would 
not  be  impossible,  however,  in  some  places  to  have  it 
occur. 

Q.  Would  it  be  possible  with  a  system  properly  constructed 
as  they  are  constructing  them  now  ? 

A.  No,  sir;  I  think  it  would  be  impossible.  I  think  it 
should  be  made  impossible. 

Q.  It  can  be  made  impossible,  also,  can  it  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  entirely,  I  think.  There  is  no  question  about 
that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  a  single  insurance  company  in  the 
United  States  that  has  ever  raised  the  insurance  on  any  house 
property  along  the  line  of  trolley  wires  to  the  extent  of  one 
penny  in  consequence  of  trolley  wires  running  in  front  it  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  has  been  stated  here  very  recently,  and  as  a  matter 
of  prophecy,  in  some  of  these  letters  written  by  certain  Pitts- 
burg lawyers,  that  property  will,  and  has,  depreciated  along 
the  streets  on  which  the  wire  runs.  What  is  your  knowledge 
on  that  subject  ? 

A.  I  think  that,  on  the  contrary,  property  has  increased, 
not  only  in  the  suburban  districts,  but  also  in  the  built-up 
portions  of  the  city,  because  the  facilities  given  to  people  from 
the  suburban  parts  to  the  stores  has  more  than  counteracted 
the  disadvantage  of  overhead  wires. 

Q.  It  has  been  said,  and  said  with  some  force,  and  I  say 
that  because  I  myself  have  seen  some  of  these  systems  in 
which  the  noise  was  undoubtedly  annoying,  that  the  general 
experience  is  that  people  are  greatly  annoyed  and  incom- 
moded by  the  noise.  State  all  you  know  on  that  subject, 
good  and  bad. 

A.  There  has  been  a  great  deal  of  complaint  on  that  score, 
and  as  you  say,  justly.  It  has  been  due  to  the  fact  that  in 
the  motors  adopted  by  the  different  roads  up  to  about  a  year 
^o  there  have  been  eight  gears  to  a  car.    Those  eight  gears 


78 


are  done  away  with  entirely  now  in  the  later  types  of  motors^ 
and  in  all  of  the  types  that  have  been  adopted  one-half  of 
them  have  been  done  away  with.  The  noise  of  the  cars 
which  have  been  going  into  service  within  the  last  six  or  eight 
months  is  something  which  is  not  as  great  as  one  of  the  old- 
fashioned  horse-cars  with  rattling  windows.  In  other  words, 
you  have  more  noise  from  horses  and  horse-cars  than  you  do 
from  the  later  types  of  motors.  There  is  nothing  that  can  be 
more  quiet  than  the  Newark  electric  cars. 

Q.  Will  it  cost  the  Traction  Company  any  more  to  put  on 
the  new  ones  than  it  would  to  put  on  the  older  system,  if  this- 
ordinance  should  be  adopted  ? 

A.  It  probably  would,  although  not  very  much  more.  There 
have  been  improvements  in  the  process  of  manufacture  which 
make  the  cost  practically  the  same. 

Q.  Then  you  say  that,  if  the  proper  appliances  are  put  on 
and  the  new  and  improved  motors,  the  matter  of  noise  will  be 
of  no  account  whatever  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  less  than  horses. 

Q.  Is  that  the  experience  of  other  people  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  I  could  take  you  to  roads  where  you  would 
find  the  cars  were  less  noisy  than  other  roads  now  operating, 
horses.  I  would  like  to  state  another  advantage,  which  is  ia 
the  reliability  of  the  service.  That  is,  perhaps,  a  thing  which 
you  will  be  doubtful  about,  but  it  is  true  that  electric  service, 
properly  put  up,  is  more  reliable  than  cable  or  horse  service. 
The  cable  system  is  liable  to  a  complete  stoppage  on  ac- 
count of  breaking  the  cable.  It  runs  all  the  cars.  In  an. 
electric  system,  properly  put  up,  it  is  only  possible  in  the  case 
of  an  accident  happening  to  any  one  portion  of  the  line  for 
that  to  apply  to  that  one  section,  varying  from  one  thousand 
to  two  thousand  feet,  and  on  both  sides  of  that  section  the 
cut-out  current  goes  on,  and  the  cars  go  on  operating  as- 
before.  In  snow  storms  electric  cars  have  been  found  by 
actual  experience  to  be  more  reliable  and  to  keep  up  closer 
schedule  time  than  either  horses  or  the  cable  system.  That 
is  simply  a  matter  of  fact  capable  of  demonstration. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  other  streets  in  other  cities  of  the; 


79 


width  and  general  character  of  the  streets  of  Philadelphia  on 
which  this  system  is  used  successfully  and  satisfactorily  ? 

A.  The  streets  of  Boston  are  much  worse  for  the  electric 
system  than  they  are  here. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  streets  of  Boston  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  they  are  crooked  and  narrow,  as  is  pretty  gener- 
ally known,  I  suppose,  and  there  have  been  complaints  from 
time  to  time  in  Boston  about  the  gorging  of  the  streets  by  the 
trolley  cars.  That  is  simply  a  legacy  of  the  old  system, 
joined  to  the  fact  that  the  trolley  cars  carry  a  far  greater 
number  of  people  than  the  old  horse-cars  ever  did. 

Q.  They  are  larger,  are  they  not  ? 

A.  Yes ;  they  have  had  to  make  them  lai^er  in  order  to- 
prevent  that  gorge  and  to  carry  the  people.  There  are  two 
lines  in  Boston,  the  Washington  Street  Line  and  the  Tre- 
mont  Street  Line,  paralleling  each  other  just  a  block  apart. 
They  put  the  trolley  system  upon  Tremont  Street,  the  line 
next  to  the  Common.  Before  that  it  was  the  Washington 
Street  line  which  was  goi^ed,  and  that  carried  nearly  all  the 
people.  That  travel  has  departed  to  the  Tremont  Street 
line  almost  completely.  Tremont  Street  is  filled  up  with  cars 
to  such  an  extent  that  there  are  very  serious  delays  there,  be- 
cause if  you  get  cars  ten  feet  apart,  say  along  a  stretch  of  two 
thousand  feet,  it  is  impossible  to  make  rapid  transit,  no  mat- 
ter how  fast  cars  can  go. 

Q.  I  refer  particularly  to  the  question  whether  the  system 
is  used  successfully  and  satisfactory  in  streets  as  narrow  as 
the  streets  of  Philadelphia  ? 

A,  Yes,  sir ;  more  so. 

Q.  And  as  much  crowded  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  narrower  streets — streets  more  crowded. 

Q.  It  is  said,  and  has  been  said  with  a  great  deal  of  em- 
phasis, that,  by  reason  of  the  character  of  our  streets  as  to 
width,  the  territorial  character  of  the  city  of  Philadelphia, 
the  thickly  built-up  portions  of  it,  the  way  in  which  the 
streets  cross  at  right  angles,  that  the  trolley  system  is  imprac- 
ticable here  and  objectionable,  more  so  than  it  would  be  else- 
where.   State  whether  it  is  used  in  sections  of  ©ther  cities 


So 

similar  substantially  to  Philadelphia  in  the  built-up  portions 
of  the  cities,  and  the  crowded  portions  of  the  cities,  the  por- 
tions having  narrow  streets  ? 

A.  It  is.  It  is  used  with  entire  success.  There  is  no  ques- 
tion whatever  about  that. 

Q.  Does  Boston  have  overhead  electric  light,  telegraph, 
and  telephone  wires  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Or  are  they  underground  ? 

A.  They  are  overhead,  I  think,  almost  entirely.  I  have 
not  been  there  myself  to  know  very  much  about  them  for  the 
year  past. 

Cross-examination, 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  You  have  spoken  of  the  fact  that  noise  has  been  re- 
duced to  a  minimum,  as  I  understand  you — ^that  it  is  not 
nearly  as  annoying  as  a  horse-car  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  any  noise  that  proceeds  from  the  friction  be- 
tween the  trolley  and  the  wire  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  there  is  a  slight  hissing  sound. 
Q.  Are  there  any  sparks  emitted  from  that  ? 
A.  Occasionally;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  horses  have  any  particular  fear 
of  that  particular  thing — the  noise  that  comes  from  the  trol- 
ley— its  motion  and  the  sparks. 

A.  They  do  for  about  a  week  after  it  is  first  introduced. 
They  get  accustomed  to  it  very  quickly.  In  Cleveland  a 
horse  would  never  think  for  a  moment  of  starting  at  it  in  any 
way. 

Q.  Is  it  not  true  that  you  can  frequently  educate  a  horse 
to  almost  anything  in  the  shape  of  noise,  when  he  finds  that 
it  does  not  hurt  him  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  is  it  as  regards  the  fact  of  the  education—do  you 
think  it  is  a  very  agreeable  thing  to  be  on  a  vehicle  in  a  nar- 
row street,  where  you  are  between  a  car  propelled  by  elec- 


8i 


tricity  on  one  side  and  the  curbstone  on  the  other  side,  with 
a  space  from  one  to  the  other  of  about  ten  feet  ? 

A.  The  most  of  the  fright  horses  have  is  not  so  much  at 
noise,  as  from  the  fact  that  there  are  no  horses  propelling  the 
cars.  Now,  if  you  change  from  the  horse-car  system  to  the 
cable  system,  you  would  have  the  same  fright  with  horses  as 
in  the  change  from  the  horse*car  line  to  the  electric  line.  If 
horses  are  accustomed  to  the  cable  line  here,  there  will  not  be 
the  slightest  necessity  for  education. 

Q.  Suppose  I  was  to  tell  you  of  a  gentleman  who  had  his 
horses  here  and  had  them  perfectly  broken  to  cable-cars,  and 
who  used  to  pass  under  the  cars  on  Twenty-second  Street 
where  the  elevated  Pennsylvania  Raihoad  comes,  who  took 
his  horses  tb  Newport,  and  that  they  there  came  in  contact 
with  the  trolley,  became  alarmed  and  frightened,  and  subse- 
quently could  never  be  induced  to  approach  these  places  after- 
wards when  they  came  back  to  Philadelphia,  being  so  much 
demoralized  that  they  were  even  frightened  at  the  cable -cars. 
Do  you  think  that  is  improbable  ? 

A.  No,  sir;  that  is  quite  a  possible  case,  but  that  would  be 
explained  by  the  fact  that  the  hissing  sound  of  the  trolley 
would  not  be  perceptible  here  in  this  city  in  the  multitude 
of  other  noises  whidi  you  have.  In  Newport  it  is  very 
quiet. 

Q.  You  have  spoken  of  the  multitude  of  noises  which 
would  deaden  that  hissing  sound,  but  take  the  case  of  a  trol- 
ley running  along  a  place  not  occupied  as  densely  as  Chestnut 
Street,  and  with  vehicles  not  as  thick  upon  it,  where  there  is 
not  that  lot  pf  noise  of  which  you  speak,  or  that  tumult  of 
noises,  would  not  the  noise  which  proceeds  from  that  trolley 
be  likely  to  produce  an  effect  upon  a  horse  when  he  first  came 
in  contact  with  it  ? 

A.  It  is  possible. 

Q.  Is  it  not  probable  ? 

A.  Well,  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  I  mean  a  horse  that  had  any  nervousness  ? 

A.  I  honestly  do  not  know  about  that.  I  do  not  know 
the  sensation  of  a  horse  exactly,  and  which  element  of  the 


82 


two  things  enters  most  into  his  mind  when  he  takes  fright  at 
an  electric  car. 

Q.  Has  it  not,  however,  been  your  observation  that  it 
would  be  dangerous  for  a  man  to  find  himself  between  meet- 
ing a  trolley-car  in  a  street  of  the  width  of  which  I  have 

spoken,  where  the  distance  from  the  track  to  the  curbstone 
was  only  ten  or  eleven  feet  ?  Would  you  not  think  it  was 
rather  a  dangerous  place  with  a  spirited  horse  for  the  hrst 
time  to  encounter  such  a  thing  ? 

A.  Well,  I  wouldn't  like  to  try  it.  That  is  one  of  the  cases 
where  I  think  that  a  short  time  devoted  to  the  education  of 
the  horse  is  well  paid  for  by  the  advantage  of  having  a  rapid 
transit. 

Q.  In  other  words,  you  think  that  it  would  be  the  duty  of 
all  persons  who  had  horses,  after  this  system  was  introduced, 
to  put  their  horses  through  a  system  of  education  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  if  they  did  not,  they  probably  would  run  the 
risk  of  having  their  necks  broken  ?    That  is  it,  is  it  not  ? 
A.  Yes,  ^r ;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Is  it  possible  to  eliminate  from  the  trolley  s^em, 
while  it  has  the  trolley  wheel  which  revolves  upon  the  trolley 
wire,  that  element  of  danger  arising  from  that  cause  ? 

A.  That  is  a  question  a  little  difficult  to  answer.  The 
hissing  sound  is  due  to  the  fact  that  you  have  there  a  wheel 
revolving  at  a  high  rate  of  speed  upon  that  trolley  wire. 
Now,  the  company  with  which  I  am  connected,  as  a  matter 
of  fact,  at  first  started  out  with  sliding-shoe  on  that  trolley 
instead  of  a  wheel,  that  shoe  having  a  piece  of  soft  metal  in- 
serted which  did  away  with  the  noise ;  but  there  were  disad- 
vantages about  that  which  chiefly  showed  themselves  in  the 
wearing  away  of  the  trolley  wire,  and  consequently  a  tend- 
mcy  to  break  at  the  weakest  point  after  con^derable  wear,  so 
that  that  was  abandoned  and  the  wheel  substituted.  I  hon- 
estly think  that  that  matter  of  the  hissing  noise  is  one  of  the 
extremely  minor  things — one  to  which  the  horses  very  quickly 
get  accustomed;  and  I  base  that  upon  my  knowledge,  which 
h  positive  knowledge,  that  with  any  other  city  in  which  the 


83 


trolley  system  is  in  operation,  where  I  have  been,  and  that  is 
quite  a  number,  T  find  that  the  horses  pay  no  more  attention 
to  an  electric  car  than  they  do  to  another,  or  to  a  locomotive. 

Q.  Are  you  anything  of  a  horseman  yourself  ? 

A  No,  sir;  not  very  much. 

Q.  Then  you  have  not  had  much  experience  in  driving  a 
horse  along  by  trolley  cars  when  they  first  started  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  have  driven  a  horse  several  times. 

Q.  Did  you  not  observe  that  the  horse,  the  first  time  that 
you  passed  the  trolley-car,  looked  up  to  see  what  that  meant  ? 

A.  I  cannot  say  that  I  ever  had  the  job  of  breaking  in  an 
uneducated  horse  to  the  trolley  system.  As  far  as  I  can  think 
at  the  present  moment  I  have  never  been  in  towns  where  the 
trolley  system  was  just  established — that  is,  at  the  inception 
and  running  of  the  first  few  months — so  that  my  testimony  on 
that  point  would  not  be  of  very  much  value.  All  I  know  is 
that  tkher  they  are  once  put  in  operation  for  even  a  short  time 
horses  get  thoroughly  accustomed  to  them. 

By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  Do  you  find  that  people  where  it  has  been  used,  after  it 
has  been  up  and  tried,  make  any  serious  complaints  on  that 
score? 

A.  No,  sir;  I  suppose  in  Cleveland  we  have  had  one  of 
the  most  extreme  cases,  in  some  way,  in  this  country.  Cleve- 
land was  one  of  the  pioneers  in  the  introduction  of  the  trolley 
system,  and  they  had  the  disadvantage  which  all  experiments 
have.  They  had  very  noisy  cars,  many  bieak-downs,  and  a 
great  deal  of  of^position.  For  the  last  year  I  have  had  occa- 
sion to  sound  public  sentiment  a  good  deal,  and  I  find  that 
the  people  would  not  think  for  a  moment  of  going  back 
either  to  horses  or  to  change  over  to  the  cable  system.  They 
have  one  cable  line  in  Cleveland.  All  the  others,  with  one 
exception,  fare  electrical  lines,  electricity  being  in  a  verylaige 
proportion.    The  electric  line  is  parallel  with  the  cable,  and 

Q.  Is  there  any  depreciation  of  property  in  Cleveland  on 
the  trolley  lines  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  property  has  been  built  up  there  in  a  marvel- 
ous way.    I  mean  the  value  of  property  all  over.   They  have 


84 


four  tracks  on  one  street — Superior  Street — for  about  three 

blocks. 

Q.  Is  Euclid  Avenue  in  Cleveland  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  claimed,  I  believe,  to  be  the  finest  avenue  in 
the  world  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  have  it  there  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  the  avenue  on  which  3^ur  wealthy  people  have 
tneir  handsome  residences  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  but  on  one  portion  of  the  avenue  there  is  no 
car  line  at  all.  That  is  far  out.  Cars  run  under  the  avenue 
about  a  mile,  and  from  that  time  they  run  along  through  a 
very  fine  residential  district. 

Q.  Do  they  run  single  or  double  tracks  ? 

A.  Double  tracks,  and  that  portion  which  parallels  the 
finer  portion  of  Euclid  Avenue — Prospect  Street — ^they  have 
almost  as  fine  residences  as  can  be  found  in  any  part  of  the 
city. 

Q.  You  say  there  has  been  no  depreciation,  but  an  appre- 
ciation, of  property  ? 

A.  I  think  the  appreciation  is  all  over  the  city  without  any 
question. 

By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  You  speak  of  the  fact  that  you  think  property  has 
ratlier  appreciated  there.  What  is  the  width  of  that  avenue  ? 

A.  I  cannot  tell  you  in  feet.  The  avenue  is  very  broad. 
I  suppose  it  is  perhaps  eighty  feet  It  must  of  necessity  be 
broad  in  order  to  have  four  tracks.  Prospect  Street,  from 
which  the  electric  cars  run,  is  probably  thirty-five  feet  wide, 
and  upper  Euclid  Avenue  is  the  same  way.  The  streets 
are  all  quite  wide  in  Cleveland. 

Q.  What  is  the  width  of  the  sidewalks  there  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  whether  I  can  tell  you  that  or  not  I 
should  say  about  eight  feet  wide— eight  to  nine  feet  wide. 

Q.  How  far,  as  a  rule,  do  the  houses  set  back  from  the 
streets  ? 


85 


A.  On  Prospect  Street  they  set  on  the  curbstone  about 
double  the  width  of  the  sidewalk — in  some  cases,  more  than 
that — three  times. 

Q.  How  much  width  would  that  give,  as  a  rule,  between 
house  and  house  on  opposite  sides  ? 

A.  I  have  paid  very  little  attention  to  measurements  and 
my  opinion  would  not  be  worth  very  much. 

Q.  Isn't  it  quite  wide  ? 

A.  It  is  quite  wide  on  some  of  the  streets;  it  is  eighty  feet 
wide  perhaps  from  house  to  house  on  some  of  the  streets. 

Q.  On  Euclid  Avenue,  what  is  the  width  ? 

A.  On  that  avenue  where  the  cars  run,  I  presume  it  is  one 
hundred  feet  from  house  to  house.  As  I  say,  my  opinion  is 
not  of  very  great  value  on  that  subject. 

Q.  Are  not  the  streets  there,  from  your  recollection,  as  a 
rule  much  wider  than  our  streets  are  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  they  are,  as  a  rule,  although  I  have  not  seen 
the  outlying  portions  of  this  city.  I  have  seen  the  business 
part  of  Philadelphia. 

Q.  They  are  much  wider  than  our  steeets,  so  far  as  you  are 
familiar  with  them  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  mean  leaving  out  Market  Street  and  Broad  Street, 
but  taking  the  others  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  As  a  rule,  is  it  not  true  that  your  streets  ar«  wide 
enough  so  that  persons  in  driving  along  meeting  these  cais 
can  have  room  enough  for  their  horses,  if  they  are  at  all  ex- 
cited or  alarmed,  to  be  reined  in  and  not  to  run  away,  rear, 
or  shy  in  close  proximity  to  the  car  on  to  the  sidewalk  ? 

A.  Well,  1  should  not  want  to  educate  a  horse  in  any 
double-track  street. 

Q.  The  narrower  the  place  that  you  are  driving  in,  the 
^eater  danger  you  think  would  come  from  the  attempt  to 
educate  him,  would  you  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  undoubtedly. 

Q.  You  have  spoken  of  the  perfection  of  this  system.  I 
understand  you  to  say  that  if  this  system  as  used  now  was 


86 


adopted  under  the  known  appliances  you  would  consider  the 
danger  reduced  to  a  minimum  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir.  In  other  words,  I  believe  that  you  can  oper- 
ate an  electric  road  on  a  large  scale  with  less  accidents  to 

human  life  from  every  cause  than  with  the  cable  system  and — 
well,  I  do  not  know  that  I  can  say  with  the  horse  system.  I 
presume  that  would  not  be  true,  but  with  the  cable  system,, 
certainly. 

Q.  Are  there  not  very  many  of  the  systems  that  have  bee» 
operated,  however,  that  have  been  made  imperfect  by  people 
who  have  not  had  these  guards  against  danger,  of  which  you 
have  spoken  ? 

A.  Yes  sir. 

Q,  Hasn't  that  been  very  laigely  the  experience  through- 
out the  country  ? 

A.  Yes ;  it  has  been  in  all  roads  built  perhaps  to  within  & 

year  or  a  year  and  a  half  ago.  I  say  all.  I  mean  some  roads. 
There  have  been  some  roads  built  without  regard  to  expense, 
where  their  operation  has  been  as  perfect  as  it  could  probably^ 
be  now,  except  for  the  slight  advantages  in  mechanism,  &c.^ 
which  alwa3rs  come  with  time. 

Q.  But  very  many  have  been  so  imperfectly  constructed 
that  they  have  been  liable  to  these  accidents  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  true. 

Q.  Is  it  not  true  that  very  many  of  these  reports  which 
have  been  published  in  the  newspapers  from  time  to  time — 
while  many  of  them  have  been  inaccurate  yet  that  many  of 

them  have  had  more  or  less  foundation  for  the  statements, 
made,  owing  to  the  imperfect  systems  which  have  been  in. 
operation  ? 

A.  Well,  now,  I  will  say,  speaking  honestly,  that  I  have  not 
seen  during  the  last  year  or  two  in  the  newspapers,  any  state- 
ments by  uneducated  newspaper  reporters  or  anybody  else 
that  men  have  been  killed  by  the  trolley  system,  with  one  or 
two  exceptions ;  and  those  exceptions  have  been  quickly 
traced  down  and  found  incorrect.  Misstatements  have  been 
laigely  put  in  rather  an  ambiguous  way — ^that  an  electric  wire 
fell ;  or  that  an  electric  light  wire  fell ;  or  a  trolley  wire  felL 


87 

And  it  has  been  more  a  matter  of  knocking  down  a  horse 
than  killing  when  a  trolley  wire  has  fallen.  I  can  think  of 
no  case  within  my  remembrance  where  there  has  been  any 
clearly  stated  newspaper  report  of  any  one  being  killed  or  se- 
riously injured  by  a  trolley  wire. 

Q.  Still  you  are  aware  of  the  fact  that  there  has  been  a 
prevalent  atmosphere  running  through  the  newspapers  which 
would  indicate  that  they  believed  the  trolley  system  to  be 
objectionable  on  account  of  accidents  being  liable  to  happen 
through  it  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  the  impression,  certainly. 

Q.  That  is  based  upon  what  you  deem  to  be  incorrect  in- 
formation, but  still  it  has  existed  ? 

A.  Yes,  §ir.  I  think  that  one  of  the  difficult  things  for 
the  people  to  understand  is  the  reason  why  a  current  should 
be  strong  enough  to  propel  one  hundred  loaded  cars,  and  yet 
not  be  strong  enough  to  kill  a  man.  I  presume  that  has  been 
very  carefully  explained  here  in  the  course  of  this  investiga- 
tion. 

Q.  Yes,  we  have  gone  into  that  very  thoroughly.  Now, 
would  you  not  say,  if  you  were  going  to  construct  a  system  of 
tramsit  by  the  use  of  a  trolley  overhead  wire,  that  you  would 
deem  it  essential  that  you  should  perfect  that  system  and 
perfect  the  engineering  provinces  connected  with  it  to  as 
great  a  degree  as  was  possible,  under  present  known  circum- 
stances that  exist  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  certainly. 

Q.  And  that  every  guard  should  be  adopted  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  at  the  time  of  invention.  Of  course,  if 
Stephenson's  engine  had  not  been  adopted  at  the  time  it  was, 
we  would  not  have  had  Corliss'  engine,  but  there  should  be 
used  the  most  modem  appliances  in  every  way. 

Q.  In  other  words,  would  you  not  consider  that  it  was  just 
one  of  those  agencies,  which,  if  handled  in  the  way  of  which 
you  have  spoken,  may  be  comparatively  harmless,  and  if 
handled  carelessly,  ignorantly,  ^or  negligently,  may  be  dan- 
gerous ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  certainly. 


88 


By  Mr.  Shapley: 

Q.  Is  it  not  to  the  immediate  pecuniary  advantage  of  a 
company,  which  would  undertake  to  put  up  a  trolley  system 
now,  to  put  up  the  very  best  that  ingenuity  has  devised  ? 

A.  Without  question;  I  do  not  suppose  that  a  company 
cares  to  pay  |;5000  for  lives  lost,  in  my  opinion. 

Mr.  Bullitt:— Mr.  Chairman:  I  have  heretofore  stated 
that  I  would  like  to  offer,  if  it  arrived,  some  information  from 
Newark,  and  with  the  permission  of  the  committee  1  would 
like  to  read  a  letter,  and  possibly  to  supplement  that  by  call- 
ing the  persons  who  have  obtained  this  information.  I  now 
read  a  letter  dated  March  i6th,  1892,  from  Mr.  Cortland 
Parker,  who  I  think  is  known  by  reputation  to  almost  every- 
body as  being  one  of  the  most  prominent  men  in  the  State  of 
New  Jersey.  This  letter  is  addressed  to  myself.  (Reading 
same.)  This  letter  comes  from  a  visit  paid  yesterday  to  Newark 
by  Mr.  Stokes  and  Mr.  Wister,  who  went  there  for  the  purpose 
of  ascertaining  how  far  the  people  of  Newark  would  confirm 
the  statements  made  by  the  mayor  of  Newark  before  this  com- 
mittee. I  would  like,  with  the  permission  of  the  committee, 
to  call  Mr.  Stokes  for  the  purpose  of  showing  what  informa- 
tion he  gained  there  with  reference  to  this  subject  I  would 
state  that  these  gentlemen  were  not  able  to  give  time  enough 
to  obtain  written  statements.  They  only  went  over  there 
yesterday  afternoon,  arriving  there  at  a  late  hour,  and  I  told 
them  that  they  must  be  back  here  to-day  by  12  o'clock. 

Mr.  Stokes,  examined : — 
By  Mr.  Bullitt  : 

Q.  You  live  on  Main  Street,  Germantown  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  are  opposed  to  this  system  of  trolley  overhead  wire, 
and  have  been  very  active  in  that  opposition,  have  you  not  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  and  Mr.  Wister  go  to  Newark  yesterday  at 
my  suggestion  for  the  purpose  of  getting  information  on  this 
subject  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 


89 


Q.  State  the  result  of  your  observation,  and  the  informa- 
tion you  obtained  with  reference  to  the  feeling  of  the  people 
over  there  upon  the  subject  ? 

A.  Of  course,  it  will  be  understood  that  we  had  quite  a 
short  time  in  which  to  get  any  very  large  amount  of  infor- 
mation, but  at  the  same  time  we  arrived  there  about  seven 
o'clock  last  evening,  and  I  left  at  about  half-past  ten  this 
morning.  Mr.  Wister  was  there  a  couple  of  hours  longer; 
in  that  time  we  had  an  opportunity  to  see  a  good  many  peo- 
ple, whom  we  knew  or  knew  of,  and  others  whom  we  spoke 
to  casually ;  also  to  go  along  the  streets  and  hear  these  cars 
in  Newark,  and  to  form  our  own  impressions  individually 
from  what  the  people  had  to  say  about  the  subject.  I  am 
myself  pretty  familiar  with  trolley  cars.  I  have  traveled  in 
a  great  many  cities  that  have  used  them,  and  I  have  slept 
under  them,  ridden  on  them,  and  driven  by  them,  and  know 
them  in  most  of  the  cities  of  the  West,  but  we  had  heard  this 
account  of  Newark's  especial  case  from  their  mayor,  and  I 
was  anxious  to  obtain  information,  being  interested  in  the 
subject 

We  saw  Mr.  Cortland  Parker,  who  stated  about  what  is 
contained  in  the  letter  which  you  have  just  heard  read.  We 
then  called  on  Mr.  McCarter,  a  prominent  lawyer  living  on 
Market  Street,  Newark,  which  is  one  of  the  broad  streets 
there  on  which  they  have  no  trolley  cars.  We  asked  his  im- 
pression, and  he  said  this :  that  the  people  universally  said 
that  it  was  good  transportation — there  was  no  denial  of  that 
— but  the  people  on  Market  Street  were  very  apprehensive  of 
having  it  come  along  the  street,  and  very  much  opposed  to  it 
coming  along  their  street. 

We  also  called  on  Mr.  F.  C.  Jackson,  who  lives  on  one  of 
the  side  streets.  I  am  not  familiar  with  their  names,  but  I 
can  tell  you  about  its  width.  He  lives  on  a  broad  street  on 
which  there  is  no  trolley.  He  is  an  old  gentleman,  I  think 
veiy  fair  and  unprejudiced.  We  told  him  what  we  wanted, 
and  that  we  were  opposed  to  it.  He  said,  "Well,  I  am 
afraid  I  can't  help  you."  We  asked  him  on  what  ground,  and 
he  said,  they  ran  up  to  the  side  of  his  ^^house  there  and  made 


90 


it  convenient  to  him  to  get  home.  I  asked  him  about  the 
noise,  and  he  said  it  was  objectionable  unquestionably.  Then 
I  asked  him  how  he  would  like  to  have  it  in  front  of  hu» 
house.  He  said  that  would  be  very  objectionable,  and  he 
would  not  like  it  at  all  I  asked  him  also  his  impression  as  to 
the  effect  upon  the  value  of  his  prc^rty.  He  said  that  he 
had  reason  to  know  that  if  he  went  to  sell  his  property  it 
would  not  bring  within  fifteen,  twenty,  or  twenty-five  per 
cent,  of  what  it  would  bring  previously  to  this,  but  he  wanted 
to  live  there  and  didn't  want  to  move  away.  He  was  one  of 
the  most  favorable  men  that  we  found  to  the  trolley  system 
in  Newark.    I  give  it  to  you  just  as  he  gave  it  to  us. 

We  also  saw  a  doctor  who  lived  in  a  rather  narrow  street, 
probably  sixty  or  fifty  feet  from  curb  to  curb.  He  was  one 
of  Newark's  prominent  physicians.  He  said  that  he  was 
very  much  opposed  to  it  at  first.  He  was  opposed  to  the  dis- 
agreeable parts  of  it  at  the  present  time,  and  as  to  his  own 
property,  but  he  came  back  to  the  fact  that  it  was  good 
transportation.  He  said  that  he  had  two  lots  by  the  side  of 
his  house  that  he  had  been  trying  to  sell  for  three  or  four 
years.  He  had  an  offer  three  years  ago  of  ^13500.  He  had 
since  offered  them  for  sale  at  $2^00  or  112400,  and  could  get 
an  offer  of  only  |ti8oo.  He  said  that  unquestionably  his 
property  had  suffered  up  to  the  present  time.  What  it 
might  be  in  the  future  he  did  not  know.  Those  were  the 
only  people  that  we  went  to  with  any  degree  of  personal 
knowledge,  but  we  talked  upon  the  street  and  found  that  the 
sentiment  was  very  much  against  the  discomforts  of  it, 
although  they  liked  to  get  around  quickly,  like  we  all  da 
They  all  seemed  to  be  pretty  well  satisfied  to  have  it  in  the 
town,  but  we  did  not  find  one  single  individual,  with  the 
exception  of  this  Mr.  Jackson,  who  was  at  all  reconciled  to  the 
fact  of  having  it  go  by  his  own  property.  They  would  like 
to  have  it  go  by  somebody  else's  property.  We  asked  them 
in  a  general  way  whether  they  were  familiar  with  Philadel^ 
I^ia  streets,  and  they  made  no  hesitation  in  saying  at  once 
that  they  thought  it  would  be  a  very  bad  thing  for  Phila- 
delphia.   As  to  our  own  personal  impressions  of  the  noise,, 


91 


the  old  cars  are  very  noisy.  It  has  been  stated  by  one  of  the 
experts  that  the  new  cars  made  nothing  like  so  much  noise. 
The  noise  of  humming  is  not  eliminated  probably  on  any 
cars.  You  can  hear  the  old  cars  certainly  for  a  block  and  a 
half  or  two  blocks.  My  impression  was  in  this  part  of  Phila- 
delphia, if  it  comes,  you  will  have  to  take  the  noise  with  it. 
I  would  rather  take  the  motors  that  had  the  noise  in  them 
or  else  have  a  whistle  on  those  cars  like  a  locomotive  whistle. 
Q.  Why  do  you  want  that  noise  ? 

A.  I  tMnk  it  would  be  an  element  of  safety.  I  think 
those  cars  ought  to  have  some  means  of  giving  notice  of  their 

approach  to  a  crossing. 

Q.  Do  they  not  give  that  by  gongs  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  to  a  certain  extent,  but  they  do  not  stand 
much  chance  on  those  cars  they  approach  so  rapidly.  The 
complaint  that  we  had  was  that  when  they  first  installed 
those  cars  the  drivers,  of  course,  had  it  in  their  power  to  run 
them  at  almost  unlimited  speed,  and  would  do  so,  and  the 
police  would  have  to  stop  it,  and  did  to  a  certain  extent. 
But  they  had  an  advantage  in  Newark  that  we  do  not  have 
here — ^that  the  houses  are  set  back  from  the  fence  quite  a  dis- 
tance, leaving  a  yard  so  that  if  you  go  up  a  street  you  can 
cross  the  yard  and  see  the  cars  probably  a  quarter  of  a  square 
before  you  get  to  the  crossing.  Here,  of  course,  the  houses 
run  right  to  the  corner,  and  we  can  all  appreciate  the  differ- 
ence. 

Cross-examination, 
By  Mr.  Johnson  : 

Q.  How  far  did  you  travel  from  the  centre  of  the  town  ? 

A.  We  traveled  out  from  the  centre  of  the  town,  I  suppose, 
probably  six  or  eight  lots.  I  am  speaking  about  the  thickly 
built-up  portion  of  Newark.    I  am  not  speaking  of  the 

suburbs. 

Q.  Then  you  kept  your  inquiries  in  the  very  thickly 
built-up  portions  of  the  city  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


92 


Q.  And  the  result  Wis  that  they  thought  it  was  a  good 
thing  for  them,  but  that  it  would  be  a  bad  thing  for  Phila- 
delphia.   Was  that  the  result  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  I  found  that  every  man  where  it  went  past  his 
own  door  objected  to  it  very  much,  but  that,  as  a  matter  of 
transportation,  they  did  acknowledge  that  it  was  good  trans- 
portation and  got  to  be  quite  well  resigned,  most  of  them,  to 
having  it  by  somebody  else's  door  instead  of  their  own. 

Q.  How  many  people  did  you  call  on  ? 

A.  Four  or  five,  but,  I  suppose,  we  talked  to  twenty  or 
thirty. 

Q.  How  did  you  diagnose  the  places  where  you  called — 
were  you  told  to  go  there,  or  did  you  just  guess  that  a  cer- 
tain place  would  be  a  good  place  ? 

A.  No;  these  two  gentlemen,  whose  names  we  know,  were 
the  only  ones  whose  names  I  know  that  we  talked  to. 

Q.  Who  gave  you  their  names  ? 

.  A.  Mr.  Bullitt  gave  us  the  names  of  two  of  these  gentlemen. 

Q.  They  were  both  lawyers  ? 
A.  I  believe  so ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  About  how  many  miles  of  electric  railways  are  there  in 
Newark? 

A.  I  do  not  know ;  I  didn't  go  into  that  I  was  not  there 
long  enough. 

.Q.  About  how  many  miles  did  you  travel  in  that  pilgrim- 
age that  commenced  at  seven  at  night  and  ended  at  ten  and 
a  half  this  morning  ? 

A.  You  misunderstand  me.  We  did  not  keep  it  up  all  the 
time. 

Q.  You  did  not  paint  the  town  quite  that  red  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  About  how  many  miles  did  you  walk  in  your  effort  to 
gather  public  sentiment  ? 
A.  I  suppose  we  walked  probably  three,  four,  or  five  miles. 
Q.  Up  one  side  and  down  the  other  ? 

A.  No,  sir;  we  did  in  some  few  cases.  We  tried  not  to  do 
that.  We  rode  on  the  cars  long  distances,  and  then  took  up 
certain  objective  points — ^veiy  rapidly,  too. 


93 


Q.  What  would  be  the  principle  of  selection  upon  which 
you  would  go  in  stopping  a  man,  and  how  did  you  stop  him 
to  gain  information  ? 

A.  1  will  give  you  one  or  two  cases  to  illustrate  that.  As 
I  said,  we  walked  quite  a  considerable  distance  and  viewed 
these  cars  more  interestedly  from  the  outside  than  from  the 
inside.  That  is  one  reason  why  we  walked  more  than  we 
rode.  After  all  that  effort  we  were  naturally  a  little  hungry, 
and  went  into  an  oyster  saloon  on  Broad  Street,  where  we 
had  some  oysters.  One  man  was  serving  these  refreshments, 
and  I  said  to  him,  "  I  see  that  you  have  none  of  these  electric 
cars  on  your  street."  He  said,  "  No."  I  said,  "  Well,  I  should 
think  you  people  would  get  up  a  petition  to  have  them  here; 
your  neighbors  are  enjoying  more  privileges  and  luxuries  than 
you  are."  Hcf  said,  "  No,  sir ;  for  heaven's  sake !  We  never 
want  them  on  this  street."  I  said,  "  Why  not  ?**  "  Well,"  he 
said,  "  they  are  noisy  and  getting  out  of  order."  He  was  not 
an  expert,  but  he  said  that  it  was  disagreeable,  their  stopping 
and  getting  out  of  order,  and  that  he  wouldn't  like  to  live 
along  the  line  of  such  a  route. 

Q.  Then  I  suppose  after  he  told  you  that  you  ordered 
oysters  ? 

A.  That  was  done  before.  It  was  while  the  oysters  were 
being  cooked.  That  is  a  sample  of  the  places.  I  asked  him 
the  question  as  if  simply  for  information,  and  in  a  general 
way,  and  in  a  perfectly  fair  way.  We  saw  twenty  or  twenty- 
five  people,  and  seventy-five  or  eighty  per  cent,  of  them  had 
very  little  to  say  in  favor  of  such  a  road ;  in  fact,  none  were 
in  favor  of  it,  except  that  it  got  you  along  in  good  shape — 
that  it  was  good  transportation — and  every  one  said  that  the 
disadvantages  of  that  system  were  great,  and  that  the  annoy- 
ance was  great. 

Q.  You  did  not  ask  anybody,  however,  who  had  any  long 
distance  to  travel,  any  workingman,  for  instance,  whether  he 
thought  it  was  an  advantage  to  be  able  to  save  time  in  get- 
ting to  his  work,  did  you  ? 

A.  Well,  I  suppose  there  would  be  but  one  answer  to  make 
to  that.  It  would  not  be  necessary.  I  would  like  myself,  if 
I  want  a  long  distance,  to  have  good  transportation. 


94 


Q.  And  you  think  that  is  good  transportation  ? 

A.  I  think  it  is.    I  think  that  has  never  been  denied. 
Q.  Did  you  ask  them  whether  they  knew  their  mayor — 
any  of  these  people  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ask  them  whether  he  was  a  representative 
man? 

A.  Well,  I  would  rather  you  would  not  ask  that  question. 
Q.  Is  that  because  you  got  a  bad  opinion  of  him  from  what 
you  gathered  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  it  is  because  he  came  over  here  so  kindly,  for 
our  benefit,  last  Monday,  that  I  think  I  would  be  very  un- 
grateful to  state  what  we  heard  in  Newark. 

Q.  I  take  it  for  granted  that,  as  he  had  been  re-elected  four 
times,  you  heard  from  the  people  who  elected  him  a  very  bad 
opinion  of  him  as  a  representative  man  ? 

A.  I  did  not  hear  from  the  people  who  elected  htm,  I  sup- 
pose. I  do  not  know  whether  they  were  such  people  or  not. 
He  stated,  I  believe,  that  he  had  been  in  there  for  eight 
years.  That  is  a  question  that  I  do  not  care  to  answer.  Of 
course,  people  discuss  methods  and  means,  &c. 

Q.  You  have  been  interested  in  opposing  this  system  for 
'Some  time.  Why  did  you  not  make  a  visit  to  Newark 
earlier? 

A.  Because  we  had  not  had  it  presented  to  us  in  such  a 
glowing  light  as  we  had  last  Monday.  I  have  seen  it  in  many 
other  places  where  I  had  made  visits,  but  1  had  never  made  a 
imh  to  any  city  before  expressly  for  that  purpose. 


The  following  Letters  from  Mayors,  Heads  of 

Departments,  Insurance  Brokers,  and  others 
in  cities  where  the  Trolley  System  is  in 
actual  operation  were  read  by  the  clerk. 


Opinion  of  the  Trolley  System  as  expressed  by 

Mayor  Matthews  of  Boston. 

Extent  of  the  System, — The  trolley  wire  was  introduced 
some  three  years  ago,  and  is  being  gradually  extended,  so 
that  in  a  short  time  it  is  expected  to  entirely  supplant  the 
use  of  horse-cars. 

Public  Opinion, — While  there  are  many  persons  who  are 
opposed  to  the  trolley  system  as  more  dangerous  than  horse- 
cars,  I  am  inclined  to  think  that  the  greater  number  are  in 
favor  of  the  system,  at  least  as  compared  with  an3^hing  that 
preceded  it.  An  attempt  was  made  to  run  electric  cars  by 
means  of  a  conduit,  but  for  some  reason  or  other  it  proved  a 
failure ;  and  the  general  idea  now  seems  to  be  that  the  trol- 
ley system  is  the  best  that  we  have  had  for  surface  travel,  and 
the  best  that  we  can  have  until  the  adoption  of  a  storage  battery 
system  be  found  practioible.  It  has  been  found,  I  believe, 
that  the  electric  cars  are  sought  by  passengers  in  pr^rence 
to  the  horse-cars  where  they  have  a  choice,  and  the  fact  that 
they  can  be  propelled  so  much  faster  where  the  streets  are 
wide  enough  and  sufficiently  free  from  other  travel  seems  to 
be  an  unanswerable  aigument  in  favor  of  the  S3rstem,  so  far  as 
the  residents  of  the  outlying  sections  of  the  city  are  con- 
cerned. In  so  far  as  their  use  in  the  narrow  streets  of  the 
business  section  of  our  city  is  concerned,  there  seems  little  to 
choose  between  electric  cars  and  horse-cars.  A  slow  rate 
of  speed  is  necessary  and  while  there  is  perhaps  more  danger 
from  the  electric^cars,  there  is  a  compensating  advantage,  on 

(95) 


96 


the  other  hand,  in  that  the  streets  can  be  kept  much  cleaner 
than  where  horses  are  used. 

On  the  whole,  therefore,  the  best  thought  that  I  have 
been  able  to  give  to  the  matter  leads  me  to  the  conclusion 
that  the  trolley  wire  S3rstem,  while  by  no  means  an  ideal  one, 
is  on  the  whole  superior  to  anything  that  we  have  had,  and 
is  generally  regarded  by  the  people  with  favor.  If  we  could 
ever  get  our  narrow  and  crooked  streets  in  the  centre  of  the 
town  straightened  out  and  a  number  of  tracks  removed  and 
the  classes  of  travel  that  use  the  streets  separated,  so  as  to 
have  the  electric  cars  confined  to  certain  streets  and  allow 
teams  to  have  the  monopoly  of  others,  I  believe  that  the 
system  would  be  a  material  factor  in  solving  the  vexed  prob- 
lem of  rapid  transit  in  this  city ;  and  in  the  meantime  I  think 
that  on  the  whole  the  change  from  horse  to  electric  has  been 
a  distinct  advantage  to  the  city. 

Yours  very  respectfully, 

N.  Matthews, 

  Mayor. 

Boston,  March  loth,  1892. 
P,  A.  B.  Widener,  Esq,,  Philada,  : 

My  Dear  Sir: — The  sentiment  in  favor  of  the  electric 
system  in  this  city  and  suburbs  is  well-nigh  universal.  The 
'only  complaint  regarding  it  is  that  we  do  not  introduce  it 
faster  than  we  are  doing,  and  we  are  putting  on  from  thirty 
to  fifty  electric  cars  every  month  in  place  of  horse-cars. 

I  could  send  you  scores  of  letters  from  improvement  asso- 
ciations in  different  sections,  but  they  are  all  of  the  same 
tenor ;  and  without  consultation  with  the  writer  of  the  letter 
herewith  inclosed,  I  send  this  as  a  specimen  of  the  letters  we 
are  constantly  receivii^,  urging  the  introduction  of  the  electric 
system. 

If  your  city  government  would  appoint  a  committee  to 
come  here,  and  ride  on  our  cars  and  talk  with  the  passen- 
gers, I  am  sure  they  would  have  no  doubt  as  to  the  popularity 
of  the  system. 

Yours  truly,  Henry  M.  Whitney, 

President. 


97 


City  of  Albany, 

Mayor's  Office. 

Albany,  March  14th,  1892. 

Mr,  P.  A,  B,  Widener,  President  Philadelphia  Traction 
Company  : 

Dear  Sir  : — In  answer  to  your  inquiry  as  to  the  experience 
of  Albany  with  the  trolley  system  on  street-car  lines,  permit 
me  to  say  that  nothing  could  induce  Albanians  to  return  to 
the  antiquated  system  of  horse-cars.  There  was  some  op- 
position to  the  adoption  of  the  system  when  it  was  first  pro- 
posed, but,  since  the  spring  of  1890,  when  the  cars  first  began 
to  run,  there  has  not  been  an  accident  due  to  the  trolley 
wires,  the  city  has  had  rapid  transit,  and  the  value  of  property, 
both  in  the  suburbs  and  on  the  streets  through  which  the 
lines  run,  has  steadily  increased. 

It  is  my  opinion  that  the  overhead  trolley  is  the  best  system 
for  operating  street-car  lines,  and  in  this  opinion  even  those 
Albanians  who  first  opposed  the  system  coincide  with  me. 

Very  respectfully, 

James  H.  Manning. 


Mayor's  Office, 

Buffalo,  N.  Y.,  March  nth,  1892. 

Philadelphia  Traction  Company ^  Philadelphia,  Pa, : 

I  am  directed  by  Mayor  Bishop  to  acknowledge  receipt  of 
your  communication  of  the  9th  inst.,  and  in  reply  to  say:  

The  people  of  Buffalo  generally  prefer  the  trolley  system 
for  street-car  motive  power,  and  would  not  return  to  horse- 
power ;  they  are  very  desirous  of  having  it  substituted  on  all 
the  lines  of  street  railway  here. 

Property  has  not  depreciated  on  the  streets  through  which 
trolley  cars  run,  so  far  as  I  can  learn. 

The  fire  department  has  not  as  yet  been  disturbed  or  de- 
layed by  reason  of  the  wires. 


98 


I  do  not  recollect  any  deaths  that  were  directly  occasioned 
by  the  railway  wires.     The  only  fatal  accidents,  I  believe, 

have  been  occasioned  by  the  cars  themselves,  and  the  number 
is  not  very  large. 

Respectfully, 

Jno.  W.  Fisher, 

Secretary  to  the  Mayor. 

Pittsburgh,  March  iith,  1892. 

Messrs.  Widener  and  Elkins^  Philadelphia^  Pa,  : 

Gentlemen  : — I  can  say  that  the  overhead  electric  system 
with  trolley  attachments  for  electric  street  railways  has  given 
satisfaction  in  the  city  of  Pittsburgh.    There  has  been  no 

complaint  made  of  any  kind  by  the  citizens  along  the  route 
of  the  several  companies  operating  in  this  city;  neither  has 
there  been  a  single  accident  of  any  kind  caused  by  the  over- 
head system.  It  has  been  operated  successfully  during  the 
past  two  years. 

Very  respectfully, 

Edward  M.  Bigelow, 
Chiefs  Department  of  Public  Works. 


Pittsburgh,  Pa.,  March  11  th,  1892. 

Messrs,  Elkins  and  Widener^  Philadelphia,  Pa. : 

Gentlemen: — Under  an  ordinance  regulating  electric 
street  railways,  all  overhead  and  electric  street  railways  are  in 
the  department  of  public  safety  and  are  controlled  and  regu- 
lated b)'  the  burean  of  electricity,  and  our  experience  with 
the  trolley  system  in  use  by  the  various  electric  railways  of 
the  city  of  Pittsburgh,  they  are  safe  and  are  not  a  menace  or 
dangerous  to  life  and  property,  and  have,  so  far,  proved  to  be 
of  little  inconvenience  to  the  fire  department.  Those  electric 
wires  which  are  the  chief  hinderance  and  trouble  with  refer- 
ence to  the  fire  service  comes  from  the  electric  light  and 
telegraph,  as  well  as  telephone  system.   The  trolley  wires  of 


99 


the  various  street  railways,  being  in  the  middle  of  the  street, 
have  not,  so  far,  seriously  interfered  with  the  fire  department 
of  the  city  of  Pittsburgh,  and  we  have  never  had  a  fire  or 
accident  in  the  city  of  Pittsburjg^  caused  by  the  wires  of  the 
various  electric  street  railways,  and  as  chief  of  the  depart- 
ment of  public  safety  I  cheerfully  testify  that  they  are  not 
detrimental  to  the  city  of  Pittsburgh. 

Very  truly  yours, 

J.  O.  Brown, 

Chief,  Department  of  Public  Safety, 
  Per  J. 


Cleveland,  March  nth,  1892. 
P.  A,  B,  Widener,  Esq.,  President  Philadelphia  Traction  Com^ 
pmy^  Philadelphia,  Pa.  : 

Dear  Sir:— As  regards  the  overhead  wire  system  of  elec- 
tric cars  now  in  use  in  this  city,  I  would  say  that  the  electric 
cars  are  now  giving  entire  satisfaction,  aad  I  do  not  believe 
that  the  citizens  here  would  consent,  under  any  circumstances, 
to  return  to  the  old  horse  system.  It  has  undoubtedly  in- 
creased the  value  of  property  in  the  suburbs,  and  we  do  not 
find  it  any  more  dangerous  than  the  cable,  and,  on  the  whole, 
it  gives  better  service  and  much  quicker  transit. 

Yours  respectfully, 

David  Morison, 
Director  of  Charities  and  Correction. 


Boston,  March  loth,  1892. 
P.  A.  B.  Widener,  Esq.,  President  Philadelphia  Traction  Com- 

pony,  423  Walnut  Street,  Philadelphia,  Pa  : 

My  Dear  Sir  The  sentiment  in  favor  of  the  electric 
system  in  this  city  and  suburbs  is  well-nigh  universal.  The 
only  complaint  regarding  it  is  that  we  da  not  introduce  it 
faster  than  we  are  doing,  and  we  are  putting  on  from  thirty 
to  fifty  electric  cars  eveiy  month  in  place  of  horse^ars. 


lOO 


f  I  could  send  you  scores  of  letters  from  improvement  asso- 
ciations in  different  sections,  but  they  are  all  of  the  same 
tenor ;  and  without  consultation  with  the  writer  of  the  letter 
herewith  inclosed,  I  send  this  as  a  specimen  of  the  letters  we 
are  constantly  receiving,  uiging  the  introduction  of  the  elec- 
tric system. 

If  5^our  city  government  would  appoint  a  committee  to 
come  here  and  ride  on  our  cars  and  talk  with  the  passengers, 
Fam  sure  they  would  have  no  doubt  as  to  the  popularity  of 
the  system. 

Yours  truly, 

Henry  M.  Whitney, 

President. 

Boston,  March  6th,  1892. 

Frank  H,  Monks,  General  Manager,  W,  E.  R.  R.,  81  Milk 
Street,  Boston,  Mass. : 

Dear  Sir:— I  am  chairman  of  the  committee  on  travel 
and  transportation  of  the  East  Boston  Citizens'  Trade  Asso- 
ciation, and  on  behalf  of  that  committee  I  ask  if  you  can 
inform  us  whether  or  not  it  is  the  intention  of  the  West  End 
Company  to  introduce  electricity  upon  the  East  Boston  Divis- 
ion road,  and,  if  so,  how  soon  our  citizens  can  expect  that 
improvement.  The  present  inconvenience  to  which  we  are 
subjected  from  overcrowded  and  poor  cars  has  been  so  often 
presented  to  you  that  it  is  not  necessary  for  me  to  refer  to  it 
further  than  to  say  that  we  are  patiently  waiting,  expecting 
that  with  the  introduction  of  electricity  we  shall  receive  better 
accommodations  through  the  use  of  larger  cars  and  more  of 
them. 

The  reason  that  I  ask  for  this  information  at  this  time  is 
because  I  am  making  up  the  final  report  of  the  committee 
for  the  season,  and  it  would  be  a  gratification  if  that  report 

can  include  a  statement  of  an  assurance  from  you  that  this 
much-desired  improvement  may  be  expected  in  the  near 
future.  If  you  can  add  any  other  information  it  will  be 
gratefully  received. 


lOI 


Allow  me  to  state  also  on  behalf  of  the  committee  that 
they  think  that  the  traveling  public  of  East  Boston  fully  ap- 
preciate the  improvement  in  the  service  on  the  city  side  on 
the  East  Boston  lines  through  the  recent  introduction  of  elec- 
tricity as  a  motor  there. 

Yours  respectfully, 

John  L.  Bates, 


Cleveland,  March  nth,  1892. 

A.  B,  Widener,  Esq  ,  President  Philadelphia  Traction  CoftP- 
pany,  Philadelphia,  Pa. : 

Dear  Sir  : — Being  a  frequent  patron  in  this  city  on  both 
the  cable  and  electric  street  railways,  as  well  as  the  old-time 
horse-cars,  I  beg  to  say  that  I  am  fully  convinced  that  the 
electric  system  is  the  best  one  to  be  used  in  the  place  of  the 
old-fashioned  horse-cars,  and  I  know  of  no  city  that  the  same 
could  be  adopted  to  so  good  an  advantage  as  the  city  of  Phil- 
adelphia. I  would  be  very  loth  to  see  any  change  made  in 
this  city,  where  I  am  satisfied  that  the  use  of  the  electric  cars 
has  enhanced  the  value  of  property  very  largely. 

Yours  respectfully, 

J.  K.  Bole, 

Chairman  Finance  Committee^  Cleveland  City  Council, 


Office  of  Comptroller. 

Allegheny,  Pa.,  March  12th,  1892. 

Messrs.  Widener  and  Elkins^  Philadelphia^  Penna. : 

Gentlemen  : — In  reply  to  your  request  I  would  say  that 
the  overhead  electric  system  of  street  railways  have  been  in 
use  in  this  city  for  several  years,  and  I  believe  have  given 
satisfaction  to  our  people.  It  is  true  that  we  have  had  a  few 
accidents,  but  these  have  been  caused  mainly  through  the 
carelessness  of  the  parties  injured.    We  have  a  number  of 


I02 


electric  lines  in  our  city,  and  I  am  of  the  opinion  that  the 
.0va*head  system  is  perfectly  safe  and  reliable. 

Very  respectfully, 

James  Brown, 

ComptraUer. 


Allegheny  National  Bank. 

Pittsburgh,  Pa.,  March  nth,  1892. 

Elkins  and  Wtdener,  Philadelphia,  Pa, : 

Gentlemen  : — In  answer  to  your  request  asking  my  opin- 
ion of  the  overhead  wire  system  of  electric  street  railways, 
would  say  that  when  the  right  was  first  granted  in  this  city  I 
was  fearful  that  it  was  a  great  mistake,  and  dangerous  and 
annoying  to  the  people  living  and  doing  business  on  the 
streets  to  be  used.  But  1  am  free  to  say  that  after  a  trial  in 
our  city  for  the  last  two  yeafs  I  think  it  a  great  improvement 
and  help  to  business,  and  that  it  has  enhanced  the  value  of 
suburban  real  estate  greatly. 

Respectfully  yours, 

Jno.  Caldwell,  Jr. 
City  of  Cincinnatl 

Mayor's  Officb. 

March  nth,  1892. 

Philadelphia  Traction  Company,  Philadelphia,  Pa,  : 

Gentlemen  -Your  letter  of  the  19th  inst,  asking  my 
opinion  in  regard  to  the  electric  trolley  system,  is  at  hand.  I 
leave  to  answer : — 

First. — ^Would  the  people  revoke  the  trolley  franchise  to 
revert  to  horse-power  if  they  could  ?  No. 

Second, — Has  property  depreciated  in  value  adjacent  to 
overhead  wire  railways  ?  No. 

Third. — Does  the  fire  department  encounter  insurmounta- 
ble obstacles  in  their  work?  It  is  true  they  are  an  obstruc- 
tion to  firemen,  but  not  insurmountable ;  but  this  is  one  of 


103 

the  great  objections  to  overhead  wires  of  any  kind.  There 
has  been  no  deaths  attributed  to  overhead  railroad  wires, 
except  that  of  a  horse  caused  by  a  break  in  the  wires. 

Respectfully  submitted, 

John  B.  Mosby, 

Mayor, 

City  of  Cleveland,  Ohio. 

Office  of  the  City  Clerk. 

March  nth,  1892. 

P,  A,  B,  Widener,  Esq,,  President  PMladelphia  Traction 

Company  : 

Dear  Sir  : — In  response  to  your  communication  I  would 
say  that  seven  years  experience  in  municipal  government  has 
convinced  me  that  the  use  of  the  trolley  system  for  the  opera- 
tion of  street*cars  has  not  had  the  effect  of  depreciating  prop^ 
crty,  but  on  the  contrary  has  proven  a  very  substantial  benefit 
to  the  same.  It  certainly  has  not  been  as  dangerous  a  system 
to  life  as  the  cable,  and  but  little,  if  any,  more  dangerous  than 
horse-cars.  As  far  as  this  city  is  concerned  the  introduction 
of  rapid  transit  by  the  trolley  system  has  been  a  great  boon 
to  thousands  of  our  people  whose  homes  are  distant  from  the 
business  portion  of  the  city,  and  they  would  certainly  not, 
under  any  circumstances,  return  to  any  slower  means  of 
transit,  even  if  less  dangerous. 

Of  our  one  hundred  and  seventy-five  miles  of  street  railway 
lines  one  hundred  and  fifty  miles  are  operated  by  the  trolley 
system,  with  the  exception  of  one  line  which  is  about  to  be 
equipped  with  it. 

One  of  the  objections  raised  to  overhead  wire  street-cars 
has  been  the  noise  with  which  they  were  operated,  but  this 
objection  is  being  rapidly  done  away  with  by  the  use  of  mod^ 
em  improved  electrical  improvements  here. 

I  have  the  honor  to  remain 

Very  truly  yours, 

Howard  H.  Burgess, 

City  CUrk. 


I04 

American  Casualty  Insurance  and  Security  Co. 

OF  Baltimore  City. 

Cleveland,  O.,  March  nth,  1892. 

P,  A,  B,  Widener,  Esq.,  President  Philadelphia  Traction  Com' 
pany,  Philadelphia,  Pa.  : 

Dear  Sir  : — Your  general  letter  of  recent  date  asking  for 
some  data  as  to  the  effect  of  the  introduction  of  electrical  ap- 
paratus on  the  street-car  lines  of  this  city,  and  as  to  what  ef- 
fect it  has  had  on  the  rates  in  writing  fire  insurance,  has  been 
handed  to  us  for  attention. 

We  are  particularly  interested  in  this  question,  namely,  as  to 
what  increase  in  fire  insurance  premiums  electric  railways  have 
brought  about.  We  wish  to  say  emphatically  that  there  has 
been  no  increase  whatever  in  insurance  rates  here  for  the 
reason  above  named.  The  experience  of  two  or  three  years 
which  our  insurance  companies  have  had  here  convinces  us 
that  no  argument  can  be  made  that  will  show  that  electric 
street  railways  increase  the  general  fire  hazards  of  a  city  in 
any  way.  We  might  also  advise  you  that  we  are  heavy  in- 
surers of  both  electric  and  cable  systems  in  Ohio,  West  Vir- 
ginia, and  Western  Pennsylvania,  and  with  our  experience  in 
this  particular  line  we  reiterate  what  we  have  above  written. 
This  objection  raised  by  your  people  against  the  introduction 
of  the  electric  railway  system  must  surely  be  based  upon 
prejudice  or  on  some  unknown  reason,  as  certainly  no  evi- 
dence to  support  it  can  be  obtained  from  fire  underwriters  to 
that  effect.  This  city  has  about  one  hundred  and  fifteen 
miles  of  electric  street  railway  in  successful  operation. 

Hoping  that  we  have  been  able  to  throw  some  light,  we  re- 
main. 

Yours  very  truly, 

Bingham,  Douglass  &  Squire, 

General  Agents, 


Dictated,  C.  B.  S. 


105 

House  of  Representatives,  United  States, 

Washington,  D.  C,  March  13th,  1892. 

Messrs.  Widener  and  Elkins,  No.  42 j  Walnut  Street,  Phila^ 
delphia.  Pa, : 

Gentlemen  : — In  answer  to  your  inquiry  as  to  the  relative 
advantage  of  the  trolley  system  over  other  means  of  street- 
car propulsion,  permit  me  to  say  that  I  have  given  the  sub- 
ject careful  consideration  for  the  last  five  years,  and  my 
opinion  is  that  beyond  any  question  of  doubt  the  overhead 
trolley  system  is  to-day  the  most  practical  plan  of  rapid  transit 
for  any  city.  In  Cleveland  and  St.  Louis,  where  I  am  inter- 
ested in  street  railroads,  there  are  no  objections  to  overhead 
wires  and  the  operation  of  cars  under  that  system  is  the  most 
popular.  Where  the  poles  and  wires  are  put  up  properly  they 
can  be  made  ornamental. 

The  objections  urged  in  the  beginning  that  they  were  dan- 
gerous, interfered  with  the  fire  department,  and  were  gene- 
rally unsightly,  has  entirely  disappeared,  and  the  bitterest 
enemies  of  the  overhead  system  have  become  its  best  friends. 

I  have  investigated  very  carefully  the  storage  battery,  and 
without  attempting  to  say  what  may  be  developed  hereafter, 
I  am  positive  that  they  are  not  a  commercial  success,  the  cost 
of  operation  being  in  every  case  greater  than  the  receipts, 
and  the  service  very  poor,  both  in  speed  and  reliability. 

The  only  practically  successful  electric  roads  to-day  are 
those  operated  by  overhead  wires. 

It  is  entirely  practicable  to  put  the  feed  wires  under  ground  in 
the  centres  of  latge  cities,  and  this  should  be  required,  as  the 
feed  wires  are  the  only  unsightly  features  of  the  electric  system. 

Yours  very  truly, 

Frank  L.  Johnson. 

Cleveland,  O.,  March  iith,  1892. 

P.  A.  B.  Widener,  President  Philadelphia  Traction  Company^ 

Philadelphia,  Pa.  : 

Dear  Sir  : — In  reply  to  your  inquiry,  "  What  is  the  effect 
of  the  electric  railway  upon  the  value  of  suburban  property?" 


io6 

I  have  to  say  that  in  Cleveland  it  has  been  in  every  way  to 
the  credit  of  the  electric  railway.  Since  the  first  car  was  put 
on  the  East  Cleveland  line  of  this  city  a  complete  change 
has  taken  place  in  the  real  estate  market,  and  property  four, 
five,  and  even  eight  miles  from  the  public  square  has  greatly 
increased  in'  value.  I  think  that  the  statement  that  this  in- 
crease amounts  to  thirty-three  per  cent,  is  a  conservative  one. 

Yours  truly, 

J.  G.  W.  COWLES, 

R.  M.  Parmely. 


ARGUMENT  OF  RUFUS  E.  SHAPLEY,  ESQ 


Mr.  Chairman  and  Gentlemen  of  the  Committee  : 

Either  I  entirely  misunderstood  the  purpose  for  which 
you  were  brought  together,  and  the  issue  before  you,  or  Mr. 
Bullitt  deliberately  ran  away  from  that  issue.    I  had  sup- 
posed, and  I  think  I  had  aright  to  suppose,  from  the  multi- 
tudinous literature  on  the  subject  which  I  have  read  in  the 
newspapers,  that  you  were  sitting  here  for  the  purpose  of 
hearing  the  testimony  of  experts  and  the  arguments  of  coun- 
sel to  determine  whether  this  trolley  S3^tem  is  or  is  not  as 
objectionable  as  it  is  represented  to  be  ;  whether  it  is  a  sys- 
tem that  can  be  safely  introduced  into  Philadelphia,  or  one 
which  should  be  excluded  from  it.    That  was  about  the  only 
question  in  the  most  remote  degree  connected  with  the  sub- 
ject of  street-cars  to  which  Mr.  Bullitt  made  no  allusion.  I 
shall  certainly  not  attempt  to  follow  him  through  his  review 
of  the  ancient  history  of  this  city  in  relation  to  street  rail- 
roads, for  I  conceive  that  it  has  no  earthly  bearing  on  this 
question.    Nor  shall  I  follow  him  into  a  consideration  of 
whether  these  ordinances  ought  or  ought  not  to  contain  more 
restrictions  than  they  do  contain.    He  spoke  for  an  hour  an 
thirty  minutes,  durii^  at  least  an  hour  and  twenty  minutes  of 
which  he  devoted  his  attention  entirely  to  those  two  subjects, 
and  the  only  time  when  he  even  approached  what  I  under- 
stand to  be  the  question  here  was  when,  in  a  dramatic  man- 
ner, he  spread  out  before  you  the  protests  of  (as  he  alleged) 
seven  thousand  two  hundred  and  sixty-three  people  (which 
he  had  kept  carefully  hidden  away  in  his  carpet-bag,  so  that 
no  one  could  examine  them),  representing  (as  he  claims) 
thirty-six  thousand  people,  assuming  that  each  person  who 
signed  was  not  a  servant  girl,  but  a  householder  and  at  the 
head  qf  a  family.    I  conf^  that  I  was  astounded.    I  had 

(107) 


io8 


supposed  from  the  wholesale  misrepresentation  on  this  sub- 
ject that  he  would  present  to  you  protests  signed  by  from  one 
to  two  hundred  thousand  people,  because  I  knew  perfectly 
well  that  with  the  misrepresentation  and  exa^eration  of 
this  subject  with  which  they  were  diligently  filling  the  minds 
of  the  people  of  this  city,  there  would  not  be  the  slighest 
difficulty  in  getting  any  person,  wholly  ignorant  of  the  sub- 
ject, to  accept  as  verity  what  such  respectable  people  told 
them. 

But  as  there  are  about  four  hundred  blocks  of  squares  which 
are  covered  by  these  ordinances,  and  as  I  think  we  may  safely 
assume  that  there  are  twenty  houses  on  each  side  of  a  block  on 
the  average  on  those  streets,  allowing  twenty  feet  front,  there 
must  be  some  sixteen  thousand  houses  that  are  directly  in- 
terested in  this  matter  by  reason  of  their  being  on  the  streets 
on  which  it  is  proposed  to  put  this  system ;  and  if  Mr. 
Bullitt's  theory  is  correct,  there  must  be  at  least  eighty  thou- 
sand people  living  directly  on  these  streets.  If  so,  he  has 
succeeded,  by  this  system  of  misrepresentation  to  which  I 
shall  refer  hereafter,  in  procuring  the  signatures  of  less  than 
one-half  of  the  people  whom  they  have  been  endeavoring  to 
persuade  that  their  property  will  be  vastly  depreciated  by  the 
introduction  of  the  trolley  system. 

I  do  not  want  to  dwell  on  this  subject,  but  of  course  you 
all  understand  very  thoroughly  that  these  streets  do  not,  as  a 
rule,  comprise  the  streets  occupied  by  the  people  of  wealth, 
leisure,  and  the  highest  amount  of  education.  I  presume  the 
majority  of  them  are  streets  on  which  plain,  every-day,  matter- 
of-fact,  business  people  and  working  people  live.  You  can 
easily  understand  how  easy  a  thing,  therefore,  it  is  to  go  to 
people  of  that  character — who  probably  have  never  seen  a 
trolley  system  in  operation  and  who  know  absolutely  nothing 
about  it — and  by  telling  them  as  they  did,  and  have  done 
from  the  first,  that  this  system  is  intensely  hazardous  to  life 
and  limb,  to  property  and  horse,  and  that  the  experience  of 
every  city  into  which  it  has  been  introduced  has  been  that 
the  property  all  along  the  lines  has  depreciated  from  twenty 
to  thirty  per  cent,  in  value — to  get  their  signatures. 


109 

So  that,  conceding  everything  to  the  protestants,  anc  ad- 
mitting that  Mr.  Bullitt  is  correct  in  his  assumption  that  the 
seven  thousand  two  hundred  and  sixty-three  represent  thirty- 
six  thousand  people,  or  nearly  thirty  thousand  people  more 
than  have  signed  tt,  we  have  still  less  than  one-half  of  the 
actual  property-owners  and  residents  on  those  streets  protest* 
ing.  But,  of  course,  you  understand  that  the  people  who  are 
directly  and  immediately  interested  in  this  system  are  not 
limited  to  those  who  simply  live  along  the  line  of  these 
streets.  It  is  perfectly  safe  to  assume  that  if  this  system 
should  be  introduced,  and  if  it  should  result  in  rapid  transit, 
or  at  least  in  more  rapid  transit  than  we  now  enjoy  in  Phila- 
delphia, every  person  within  two,  three,  or  four  blocks  of  each 
street  on  which  it  runs  in  each  direction  will  be  directly  in- 
terested in  it,  so  that  in  the  immediate  neighborhood  of  these 
streets  we  can  very  safely  assume,  counting  only  two  squares 
in  each  direction,  that  there  are  at  least  four  times  as  many 
houses  as  there  are  on  the  streets  themselves.  On  the  basis 
of  five  people  to  a  house  there  would  then  be  over  three  hun- 
dred thousand  people  within  two  blocks  of  this  system,  and 
therefore  the  direct  and  immediate  sharers  in  any  benefit  re- 
sulting from  it.  You  will  also  remember  that  the  population 
of  this  city  is  a  million  and  fifty  thousand  people  in  round 
numbers,  and  that,  if  Mr.  Bullitt  is  correct,  these  seven  thou- 
sand two  hundred  and  sixty-three  signers  (not  servant  girls) 
represent,  at  the  outside,  not  more  than  thirty-six  thousand 
out  of  a  million  and  fifty  thousand  people,  leaving  a  million 
and  fourteen  thousand  people  whom  you  are  supposed  to 
represent. 

Instead  of  attempting  to  follow  Mr.  Bullitt  in  his  dis- 
course on  the  ancient  history  of  street-car  companies  and  the 
franchises  granted  to  them,  I  propose  to  consume  a  very  short 
portion  of  your  time  by  discussing  what  I  believe  to  be,  and 
what  I  think  every  member  of  the  committee  understands  to 
be,  the  only  question  which  you  came  here  to  consider ;  that 
is,  the  wisdom  or  unwisdom  of  permitting  the  introduction  of 
this  trolley  system  into  Philadelphia. 


XIO 


The  protests  against  this  measure  come  from  four  different 
classes  of  people  : — 

1.  Those  who  are  pecuniarily  interested  in  elevated  road  or 
storage-battery  schemes,  or  rival  street  railway  combines,  and 
who  have,  therefore,  a  direct  pecuniary  interest  in  trying  to 
defeat  these  ordinances. 

2.  Those  who  habitually  oppose  progress  or  improvement 
of  any  kind. 

3.  Those  who  habitually  sign  any  petition  or  protest  they 
may  be  asked  to  sign,  and 

4.  A  very  lai^e  number  of  highly  respectable  and  estima- 
ble people,  who,  having  no  actual  knowledge  of  the  trolley 
system,  have  been  led  to  believe,  by  the  exaggerations  and 
misrepresentations  of  interested  parties  who  are  managing 
this  opposition,  that  the  trolley  system  is  in  some  way  highly 
dangerous  and  objectionable. 

Now,  everybody  admits  two  things  :  First,  our  great  need 
of  rapid  transit,  and,  secondly,  that  it  is  much  more  desirable 
to  have  electric  wires  underground,  whenever  they  can  be  put 
there. 

But,  knowing  from  experience  the  inestimable  advantages 
of  the  telegraph  and  electric  light,  none  of  us  would  consent 
to  do  without  them  on  account  of  the  overhead  wires— if  it 
were  impossible  to  put  and  operate  the  wires  underground. 

No  system  of  transit,  rapid  or  slow,  has  ever  been  or  ever 
can  be  devised,  to  which  there  are  not  some  unavoidable  ob- 
jections. 

The  test  by  which  you  must  decide  whether  these  ordi- 
nances should  be  approved  or  rejected  is  this  :  Will  the  ad- 
vantages from  the  use  of  this  system  be  greater  than  the  in- 
adental  disadvantages  ?  If  we  were  to  reject  every  public 
improvement  because  of  some  incidental  disadvant^es, 
Philadelphia  would  stand  still  or  actually  go  backwards, 
while  other  rival  cities  would  soon  out-distance  it. 

And  right  here  let  me  remind  you  that  the  history  of  this 
city  shows  that  every  measure  looking  to  its  advancement 
during  the  past  hundred  years  has  met  with  similar  unreas<m- 
ing  opposition. 


Ill 


Always  Enemies  of  Progress. 

As  long  ago  as  1789  we  find  that  fourteen  hundred  full- 
grown  men  in  this  city  actually  protested  most  solemnly 
against  the  passage  of  an  act  to  incorporate  it,  alleging  that 
they  would  thereby  be  "subjected  to  an  aristocratic  police," 
and  that  the  experience  of  their  forefathers  in  England  had 
shown  the  mischievous  effects  of  incorporating." 

Ten  years  later,  in  1799,  we  find  the  same  class  of  people 
protesting  against  the  erection  of  the  first  water-works,  on  the 
ground  that  their  old-fashioned  wells  and  pumps  were  quite 
sufficient. 

A  few  years  later,  in  1812,  we  find  them  protesting  against 
the  introduction  of  coal  as  fuel.  In  1828  we  find  them  send- 
ing a  memorial  to  Congress  seriously  asking  it  to  prohibit 
sales  of  goods  by  auction,  on  the  ground  that  auctions  tended 
to  promote  thievery,  to  ruin  the  importing  trade,  to  injure 
commerce,  to  debase  public  morals,  and  to  increase  the  price 
of  merchandise. 

In  1833  we  find  them  solemnly  protesting  against  lighting 
the  city  with  gas,  alleging  that  it  was  "  an  article  as  ignitable 
as  gunpowder  and  as  fatal  in  its  effects;"  that  "  it  would,  by 
explosions  and  confiscations,  cause  an  immense  destruction 
of  property  and  an  appalling  loss  of  life ;  "  and  that  "  it  would 
destroy  the  immense  shoals  of  shad,  herring,  and  other  fish 
with  which  the  Delaware  and  Schuylkill  Rivers  abound." 
And  this  celebrated  and  solemn  protest  is  signed  by  the  fore- 
fathers of  many  of  the  signers  who  now  protest  against  run- 
ning cars  by  electricity  on  substantially  the  same  grounds  that 
were  then  urged  against  the  use  of  gas.  And  among  the 
signers  we  find  the  names  of  such  eminent  lawyers  of  that  day 
as  Horace  Binney,  John  Sargeant,  Benjamin  Chew,  William 
J.  Duane,  Joseph  P.  Norris,  and  William  Hirst,  and  of  such 
citizens  as  Dr.  Physick,  Hartman  Kuhn,  James  C.  Fisher, 
John  C.  Cresson,  Matthew  Newkirk,  Paul  Beck,  and  hun- 
dreds of  equal  intelligence  and  prominence. 

Later  on,  in  1858,  when  it  was  proposed  to  introduce  street- 
cars on  Fifth  and  Sixth  Streets,  on  Arch  Street,  and  on  Chest- 


112 


nut  and  Walnut  Streets,  we  find  the  same  class  of  Philadel- 

phians  protesting  against  this  desecration  of  our  streets,  the 
largest  property-owners  and  storekeepers  on  Chestnut  Street 
actually  threatening  to  move  away  from  those  streets,  and 
even  from  the  city  itself,  if  their  protests  were  not  heeded. 
So  revolutionary  were  the  pamphlets  with  which  they  flooded 
the  Capitol  at  Harrisbui^  that  the  legislature  of  1858  was  in- 
timidated, and  the  bill  to  allow  street-cars  on  Chestnut  and 
Walnut  Streets  was  not  passed  until  a  new  and  braver  legis- 
lature met  in  1859. 

Again,  in  1867,  when  it  was  proposed  to  run  street-cars  on 
Sunday,  so  that  church^oing  people  could  ride  to  their  often 
far-off  churches,  and  that  tired-out  workingmen  with  their 
wives  and  children  could  get  out  of  the  over-heated  city  into 
the  country  to  get  a  little  pure  air  once  a  week,  we  find  the 
proposition  meeting  with  similar  opposition,  and  the  same 
class  of  people  beating  at  the  doors  of  the  Supreme  Court, 
and  clamorously  demanding  that  it  should  restrain  such  dese- 
cration of  our  streets  by  injunction. 

As  late  as  1887,  the  very  leaders  of  the  present  opposition, 
who  now  say  "  give  us  cable-cars,"  held  town  meetings  and 
nearly  scared  Governor  Beaver  into  fits  by  the  violence  of 
their  protests  against  an  act  authorizing  the  incorporation  of 
traction-motor  or  cable  companies. 

Philadelphia  Going  Backward. 

So  it  has  been  with  every  measure  tending  to  lift  Philadel- 
phia up  from  the  condition  of  a  provincial  vills^e  to  the 
dignity  of  a  great  city.  And  the  result  has  been  that  instead 
of  its  now  being  what  it  was  during  the  Revolution — ^the 

commercial  metropolis  of  this  country — we  hold  but  third 
place,  and  are  likely  soon  to  lose  even  that  rank.  It  is  not 
much  wonder  that  the  business  men  of  New  York  and 
Chicago — yes,  and  of  Pittsburgh  and  a  score  of  Western  cities 
that  have  sprung  up  as  if  by  magic — regard  this  as  little  more 
than  an  over-grown,  antiquated,  provincial  town.  And  it  is 
not  much  consolation  to  know  that  we  owe  this  condition  of 


affairs  mainly  to  the  obstinate  and  unreasoning  opposition  of  a 
certain  class  of  our  own  people  to  anything  in  the  way  of 
progress  or  improvement. 

If  the  trolley  wire  were  really  as  dangerous  as  some  people 
say  it  is,  we  would  at  least  have  before  us  the  cheering  pros- 
pect of  the  speedy  extermination  by  involuntary  electrocution 
of  some  of  these  chronic  recalcitrants  who  have  so  long  been 
the  curse  of  this  city. 

And  I  am  personally  acquainted  with  many  devout  Chris- 
tian people  who  would  look  upon  such  an  event  as  nothii^ 
less  than  a  special  interposition  of  Divine  Providence. 

Now,  Philadelphia  needs  rapid  transit  so  badly  that  you 
recently  gave  permission  to  build  the  most  objectionable  of 
all  structures,  an  elevated  road,  all  along  Market  Street,  your 
most  important  thoroughfare.  But  at  that  time  the  leaders 
of  the  present  opposition  were  silent.  They  never  oppose 
any  scheme  which  they  or  their  friends  are  in — never. 

Capitalists  are  Shy  Birds. 

But  of  course  the  elevated  road  has  not  been  built,  and 
will  not  be  built  in  our  generation.  Capitalists  are  shy  birds. 
They  never  throw  their  money  away — ^knowingly  and  deliber- 
ately. 

Of  our  population  of  one  million  and  fifty  thousand  nearly  nine 
hundred  thousand  live  more  than  a  mile,  about  five  hundred 
and  fifty  thousand  more  than  two  miles,  and  over  three  hun- 
dred thousand  more  than  three  miles  from  the  great  banking 
and  business  centres,  so  that  rapid  transit  of  some  kind  is  be- 
coming an  absolute  necessity. 

Philadelphia  differs  from  New  York  in  this  respect,  that, 
while  that  city  is  built  on  a  narrow  strip  of  territory  of  great 
length,  so  that  three  elevated  railroads  and  the  cable  road  on 
Broadway  accommodate  the  great  bulk  of  its  population,  the 
area  of  the  city,  which  is  already  thickly  built  up  and  popu- 
lated, is  four  miles  from  east  to  west  and  six  miles  from  north 
to  south.  The  distance  from  the  southeastern  point  of  this 
built-up  portion  to  the  northwestern  is  fully  eight  miles,  and 


114 


from  the  southwestern  to  the  northeastern  between  eight  and 

ten  miles.  So  that  even  if  it  were  possible  to  get  capitalists 
to  build  the  two  elevated  roads  which  have  been  projected 
they  would  afford  relief  to  only  comparatively  few  people 
who  live  along  their  immediate  lines,  while  the  great  body  of 
the  people  would  not  in  any  way  be  benefited,  and  can  never 
hope  to  have  a  sufficient  number  of  elevated  roads  to  do  them 
much  good. 

If  you  will  look  over  the  map  which  the  opposition  has 
prepared  for  the  purpose  of  scaring  people  into  signing  these 
protests  you  will  see  that  the  traction  S3^tem  extends  into 
every  section  of  the  city,  and  that,  if  it  could  run  its  cars  from 
one  end  of  the  city  to  the  other  in  half  the  time  it  takes  to  do 
so,  you  would  immediately  have  a  thoroughly  practical  sys- 
tem of  rapid  transit  which  would  accommodate  every  section 
and  be  brought  to  the  very  doors  of  hundreds  of  thousands  of 
people  who  can  get  rapid  transit  in  no  other  possible  way. 
This  very  network  of  roads,  which  some  people  regard  as  such 
a  frightful  bugaboo,  is  just  what  makes  this  scheme  of  rapid 
transit  so  thoroughly  practicable. 

This  company  proposes  to  spend  from  m^cxx),ooo  to 
|^5,ooo,ooc  in  doing  this,  not  as  a  matter  of  economy,  but  be- 
cause, if  a  trip  can  be  made  in  fifteen  minutes  which  now  takes 
thirty  minutes,  the  increase  in  the  number  of  passengers  car- 
ried will  yield  a  fair  profit  on  this  additional  outlay. 

Will  Run  One-Half  Faster. 

Of  course,  nobody  expects  the .  cars  to  run  much  more 
rapidly  than  horse-cars  do  in  crowded  parts  of  the  city — ^and 
this  as  a  matter  of  safety  to  the  people  on  the  streets.  But 
this  is  true  to  only  comparatively  few  blocks.  Elsewhere  the 
speed  can  be  increased  with  safety,  so  that,  if  the  experience 
of  other  cities  is  worth  anything,  the  time  on  all  loi^  routes 
can  be  shortened  nearly  or  quite  one-half.  It  is  the  people 
who  have  to  take  long  rides  who  most  need  rapid  transit,  and 
who  will  be  the  greatest  gainers.  Even  ten  minutes  saved 
twice  a  day  means  about  thirteen  whole  working  days  in  a 


115 

year,  which,  at  the  avers^e  rate  of  wages  earned  by  working- 
men,  would  result  in  a  saving  of  time  equal  in  value  to  what 
they  pay  for  car  fare  in  a  year;  or,  in  other  words,  would  be 
equivalent  in  value  to  free  transportation  twice  a  day  for 
every  working  day  in  the  year. 

So  that  jf  must  be  perfectly  clear  that  hundreds  of 
thousands  of  people  who  now  most  need  rapid  transit  will  be 
enormously  benefited  by  the  passage  of  these  ordinances,  and 
that  the  increase  in  the  value  of  real  estate  on  the  outskirte 
and  in  the  suburbs  will  be  simply  enornious.  Mr.  Westing- 
house  told  you  that  the  assessment  of  all  property  in  Pittsburgh 
along  these  lines  has  been  increased  fourfold. 

Now,  what  are  the  objections  ?  They  say  that  the  poles 
are  unsightly  ;  that  the  system  is  most  dangerous  to  life  and 
limb  and  property,  and  that  it  will  cause  a  great  depreciation 
in  the  value  pf  property  on  every  street  on  which  it  is  used. 
They  go  further  and  say  that  wherever  it  has  been  used  ex- 
perience has  convinced  people  generally  of  its  exceedingly 
dangerous  and  objectionable  character,  forgetting  the  very 
obvious  fact  that  if  such  were  the  case  the  people  who  had 
had  such  an  experience  would  be  rapidly  doing  away  with  it, 
instead  of  putting  it  on  innumerable  new  routes  as  rapidly  as 
the  cars  can  be  built 

If  the  half  of  these  objections  were  true  we  certainly  ought 
to  hesitate  a  long  time  before  granting  these  privileges.  But, 
unfortunately  for  those  who  have  recklessly  or  ignorantly 
made  these  statements,  the  most  important  of  them  are  not 
true.  They  have  absolutely  failed  to  show  a  single  well- 
authenticated  case  in  which  a  human  being  was  ever  killed  or 
seriously  injured  by  the  current  of  the  trolley  wire,  or  where 
a  single  fire  was  caused  by  it.  The  evidence  to  the  contrar>' 
is  simply  overwhelming.  So  far  from  its  causing  an  increase 
in  insurance  rates  or  a  depreciation  in  the  value  of  property, 
you  have  the  testimony  of  underwriters,  real  estate  men, 
property-owners,  and  the  mayors  of  a  number  of  cities— 
none  of  whom  have  the  slightest  pecuniary  interest  in  this 
matter  or  in  the  trolley  system—who  all  tell  you  that  they 
have  never  heard  of  a  case  in  which  there  was  the  slightest 


ii6 

increase  in  insurance  rates  or  the  slightest  depreciation  in 
value  of  a  single  property,  or  any  complaint  whatever  from 

the  people  after  they  had  seen  the  system  in  actual  operation, 
and  that  with  the  new  and  improved  motors  the  noise  is  not 
any  greater,  if  as  great,  as  that  of  horse-cars. 

No  Longer  an  Experiment.  * 

.  Remember  that  the  system  is  not  an  experiment ;  that  it  is 
now  in  actual  and  successful  operation  in  nearly  two  hundred 
and  fifty  cities  and  large  towns  in  the  United  States,  among 
which  ar6  the  large  cities  of  Boston,  Brooklyn,  Newark, 
Rochester,  Baltimore,  Pittsburgh,  Cincinnati,  Cleveland,  St 
Louis,  Milwaukee,  Minneapolis,  St.  Paul;  that  it  has  been 
thoroughly  tested  for  several  years  in  Boston,  in  crooked 
streets  quite  as  narrow  and  crowded  as  any  street  in  this  city 
on  which  it  is  proposed  to  use  it,  and  that  in  that  city  alone  it 
is  used  on  two  hundred  and  sixty-one  miles  of  tracks,  while 
here  it  is  proposed  to  use  it  on  but  forty  miles,  and  that  over 
three  hundred  street  railway  companies  have  adopted  it  at  a 
cost  of  ^155,000,000,  on  four  thousand  and  sixty-two  miles 
of  tracks,  with  seven  thousand  one  hundred  and  eighty-one 
electric  cars.  They  may  not  like  the  sj'stem,  but  it  is  not 
treating  people  fairly  for  our  opponents  to  speak  of  it  now  as 
an  experiment.  Candid  and  intelligent  men  do  not  usually 
discuss  a  subject  of  such  grave  importance  in  this  manner.  It 
indicates  a  deliberate  purpose  to  misrepresent  and  deceive. 

The  Ledger  of  yesterday,  which  has  heretofore  opposed 
these  ordinances,  now  frankly  admits  that  the  danger  to  life 
and  limb  is  not  worth  talking  about.  It  says :  "  The  truth  is 
that  under  certain  conditions,  not  often  realized,  such  a  cur- 
rent may  be  dangerous  to  human  life,  but  that  in  practice  the 
danger  to  the  lives  of  the  people  is  so  remote  that  it  may  be 
disregarded."  In  view  of  this  frank  admission,  look  at  the 
position  in  which  thousands  of  ordinarily  truthful  people  are 
placed  who  signed  these  protests,  ignorantly,  of  course,  but 
solemnly  asserting  that  wherever  this  system  has  been  tried 
experience  has  shown  it  to  be  highly  dangerous  to  human 
life? 


117 

Of  course,  the  respectful  and  truthful  people  who  signed  a 
protest  containing  such  a  statement  did  not  know  how  exten- 
sively this  system  is  used,  or  did  not  inquire  as  to  what  has 
been  tlie  actual  experience  of  people  in  other  large  cities. 

The  Ledger^  however,  dwells  on  the  danger  from  fire  in  the 
event  of  an  electric  light  or  telegraph  wire  breaking  and  fall- 
ing upon  the  trolley  wire.  The  editor,  doubtless,  overlooked 
the  fact  that  no  well-authenticated  case  like  this  has  ever 
happened  on  the  thousands  of  miles  of  tracks  on  which  it  is 
used  in  nearly  two  hundred  and  fifty  cities  and  towns. 

Insurance  Companies  not  Scared. 

He  also  overlooked  the  fact  that  experts  called  by  the  op- 
position admitted  that  the  use  of  the  protecting  wire  above 
the  trolley  wire  to  prevent  the  electric  and  telegraph  wires 
from  coming  in  contact  with  it,  in  case  of  their  breaking  and 
falling,  would  make  the  danger  of  such  accidents  very  slight. 
He  also  overlooked  the  fact  that  the  insurance  companies 
have  never  regarded  the  danger  as  of  sufficient  account  to 
justify  them  increasing  the  rates  of  insurance  a  single  penny 
on  a  single  property  along  the  thousands  of  miles  of  trolley 
wire  now  in  operation.  He  also  overlooked  the  fact  that  on 
very  few  streets  where  it  is  proposed  to  put  the  trolley  wires 
are  there  any  electric  light  or  telegraph  wires  which  could 
break  and  fall,  and  that,  when  they  are  all  put  under  ground, 
as  they  will  be,  accidents  of  this  kind  will  be  wholly  impossi- 
ble. You  see  even  editors  sometimes  overlook  important 
facts  like  these  when  discussing  grave  subjects. 

Does  any  one  suppose  that  the  people  of  Boston,  Brooklyn, 
Newark,  Pittsburgh,  Baltimore,  Cincinnati,  Cleveland,  St 
Louis,  Minneapolis,  St  Paul,  Milwaukee,  and  other  cities 
have  any  less  regard  for  the  safety  of  their  property,  of  their 
own  lives,  and  of  the  lives  of  their  wives  and  children  and 
horses  than  you  have  of  yours  ?  Does  any  one  suppose  that 
they  did  not  consider  these  alleged  objections  and  satisfy 
themselves  fully  of  their  baselessness  before  they  permitted 
the  use  of  this  system  on  their  streets  ? 


ii8 

Does  any  one  suppose  that  over  $i 55,cxx),ooo  of  capital 
would  have  been  invested  by  street  railway  companies  in  con- 
structing this  system  if  its  safety  and  efficiency  had  not«been 
thoroughly  tested,  and  if  diey  had  not  been  thoroughly  sati^ 
fied  that  it  was  the  only  practical  system  in  existence  ?  Re- 
member, that  for  every  accident  of  any  of  these  kinds,  the 
street-car  companies  would  have  to  pay  heavy  damages,  and 
that  they  would  not  invest  millions  of  dollars  in  a  system 
that  was  hazardous. 

What  is  the  Use  of  Talking? 

What  is  the  use  of  talking  about  storage  batteries,  when 
even  the  professed  experts  called  by  our  opponents  were 
forced  to  admit  that  it  was  absolutely  impossible  for  com- 
panies to  use  the  storage  batteries  because  of  their  great 
weight  and  cost  to  begin  with,  and  the  fact  that  they  wear 
out  in  from  eight  to  eighteen  months  ? 

What  is  the  use  of  talking  of  a  cable  in  view  of  its  cost  ? 
If  an  ordinance  were  offered  to  permit  this  company  to  dig 
up  all  these  forty,  miles  of  streets  and  put  cables  in  them  there 
would  be  a  protest  ten  times  louder  and  more  earnest  than 
this. 

What  is  the  use  in  talking  about  the  Buda-Pesth  conduit 
with  a  slot  from  one  and  one-half  to  one  and  three-quarters 
inches  wide  on  our  narrow  streets,  where  every  team  and  car- 
riage must  use  the  car-track,  and  where  the  ^ow  and  ice  and 
water  would  necessarily  destroy  the  electric  current  ? 

What  is  the  use  of  talking  about  any  conduits  when  they 
have  all  been  tried  and  tested  and  abandoned  as  practical  im- 
possibilities, in  this  country,  at  least  ? 

Of  course.  Professor  Marks,  being  an  electrical  expert  and 
inventor,  would  not  admit  that  one  could  not  be  invented 
which  would  overcome  all  the  obstacles  which,  up  to  this 
time,  have  proved  insurmountable.  How  much  of  practical 
value  there  is  in  the  inchoate  one  which  is  floating  around 
somewhere  in  his  brain-cells,  like  the  earth  in  the  beginning, 
"  without  form  and  void,"  is  shown  by  the  fact  that  it  has  never 


119 

yet  materialized,  and  he  has  not  thought  it  worth  his  while 
to  apply  for  letters  patent.  It  is  worth  absolutely  nothing,  or 
it  is  worth  |;i,ooo,ooo  this  very  minute.  If  he  had  the 
remotest  suspicion  that  he  had  invented  such  a  conduit  of  any 
practical  value  no  lightning  express  train  between  here  and 
Washington  would  be  half  fast  enough  for  him. 

Oh,  but  we  are  told  to  wait ;  that  some  how,  some  time, 
some  one  may  invent  a  storage  battery  cheap  enough  to  use  or 
a  conduit  which  will  work.  So  some  one,  some  how,  some 
time  may  possibly  "  in  the  sweet  by-and-by ; "  but  as  soon 
as  the  thing  is  actually  done  down  will  come  the  trolley 
wires,  and  that  as  a  cold-blooded  matter  of  business,  not  as  a 
matter  of  sentiment. 

We  have  waited,  and  the  people  of  this  city  have  waited, 
for  rapid  transit,  lo  !  these  many  years.  So  have  hundreds  of 
other  similar  companies  waited,  but  they  have  waited  in  vain 
for  a  better  system.  All  the  electrical  experts  and  inventors 
in  the  world  have  been  trying  for  years  to  solve  this  problem, 
and  millions  of  dollars  have  been  spent,  but  thus  far  all  in 
vain. 

Oh,  yes,  it  is  all  very  well  for  you  people  who  live  on 
aristocratic  Walnut  Street,  and  who  don't  need  rapid  transit ; 
who  love  to  hear  the  old-fashioned  horse-car  go  lazily  jingling 
down  one  street  and  leisurely  dawdling  up  the  other,  to  say 
**  Wait,  wait."  But  there  are  nearly  half  a  million  less  fortu- 
nate people  than  yourself  who  cannot  afford  to  wait  any 
longer  for  the  remote  possibility  of  some  other  system  mate- 
rializing in  this  generation. 

So  that  it  must  be  admitted  by  all  fair-minded  people 
that,  judging  by  the  experience  of  so  many  other  cities,  all 
these  objections  on  the  score  of  danger  are  widely  exagger- 
ated, and  that  the  trolley  system,  while  by  no  means  all  that 
could  be  desired,  is  the  best  yet  known. 

The  Traction  Company  does  not  like  it  any  better  than  you 
do.  But  it  is  with  it  as  it  is  with  you — a  clear  case  of  Hob- 
son's  choice.  They  had  to  do  just  what  you  will  have  to  do — 
choose  between  the  trolley  system  and  the  old-fashioned  horse- 
car. 


I20 


I  admit  that  from  a  high  artistic  standpoint  these  slender 
standards  or  poles  are  unsightly,  but  I  timidly  suggest  that 
they  will  not  be  nearly  as  inartistic  and  unsightly  as  the  mul- 
titudinous and  massive  telegraph  and  electric  light  poles 
which,  with  hundreds  of  unsightly  and  dangerous  wires,  line, 
and  have  for  years  lined,  both  sides  of  Broad  Qtreet  and  our 
own  beloved  Chestnut  Street.  I  admit  that  our  beautiful 
cobble-stone  pavements  ought  not  to  be  thus  desecrated,  if  it 
be  possible  to  avoid  such  desecration.  I  admit  that  the 
stately  and  splendid  edifices — ^the  superb  creations  of  the 
architect's  genius — which  line  South  Street  and  Lombard 
Street  and  Bainbridge  Street,  and  many  other  equally  aristo- 
cratic and  fashionable  thoroughfares  down  in  the  "  Neck " 
and  up  in  Kensington,  could  be  seen  to  better  advantage  if 
this  idea  of  rapid  transit  were  wholly  abandoned. 

But  this  is  a  very  plain,  practical  world,  sadly  lacking  in 
**  light  and  sweetness,"  and  with  very  little  of  the  "  true  artis- 
tic feeling."  While  a  few  of  our  people  have  cultivated  their 
artistic  tastes  to  such  an  extent  that  they  are  shocked  at  the 
idea  of  permitting  the  erection  of  a  magnificent  equestrian 
statue  of  Washington  in  Independence  Square,  or  of  the  trol- 
ley system  on  streets  upon  which  they  never  travel,  the  great 
body  of  our  people,  to  whom  rapid  transit  is  an  absolute 
necessity,  will  gladly  accept  this  as  one  of  the  slight  incon- 
veniences to  which  they  must  submit  for  the  sake  of  a  great 
public  improvement. 


ARGUMENT  OF  JOHN   G.  JOHNSON,  ESQ. 


The  question  that  you  have  to  consider,  and  the  only 
question  which  you  have  a  right  to  consider — and  which,  I 
take  it,  you  will  consider- — ^is  whether,  in  your  judgment,  as 
the  representatives,  not  of  Spruce  and  Pine  Streets,  or  of  any 
particular  locality,  but  of  this  whole  city,  it  will  be  for  the 
best  interests  of  the  citizens  of  Philadelphia  that  you  shall 
pass  these  ordinances.  That  is  the  only  question  that  you 
can  consider,  and  every  other  question  is  as  the  idle  wind,  and 
the  discussion  of  it  is  a  waste  of  your  time. 

"  And  yet  Mr.  Bullitt  and  the  gentleman  specially  retained 
to  present  the  objections  of  the  protestants  against  this  meas- 
ure, a  gentleman  thoroughly  capable  of  doing  the  work,  has 
devoted  his  whole  time,  as  Mr.  Shapley  very  aptly  said,  not 
to  that  consideration,  but  to  a  minute  criticism  of  the  wordii^ 
of  the  ordinances  that  have  been  presented,  to  a  mere  discus- 
sion of  its  details,  and  an  appeal  to  your  prejudices  and  a  mere 
raising  before  you  of  a  scarecrow  as  harmless  as  the  one  with 
which  the  farmer  protects  his  fields.  And  the  excuse  that  he 
gives,  and  the  excuse  that  his  junior  colleague  gives,  is  that 
they  have  not  had  time !  Do  not  press  these  things  through, 
they  say,  with  this  unseemly  haste,  but  give  us  time  and  we 
will  overwhelm  the  defects  of  this  measure,  not  with  the 
flimsy  objection  that  they  present  in  every  direction,  but 
with  the  intention  of  real  objections  that  they  think  they  will 
find  if  they  have  sufficient  time. 

**  You  are  told  that  these  ordinances  are  singularly  desti- 
tute and  the  bill  singularly  reprehensible  in  that  you  do  not 
prescribe  in  all  the  details  of  the  construction  of  the  electric 
wire  system.  Which  one  of  you  would  care  to  take  upon 
himself  the  duty  and  the  responsibility  of  saying  by  an  or- 
dinance how  it  should  be  constructed  ?  Where  is  the  ordi- 
nance of  any  of  your  bodies,  your  own  or  your  predecessors^ 

(121) 


t 


122 


in  which  you  put  into  the  specifications  of  construction.  In 
this  ordinance  it  is  provided  that  the  wires  shall  be  erected 
under  the  direction,  under  the  supervision,' of  the  Department 
irf  Public  Safety.  The  gentleman  would  prefer  that  you 
would  legislate  out  of  existence  an  officer  whom  you  have 
created,  the  head  of  the  Electrical  Bureau,  who  is  in  the  De- 
partment of  Safety.  The  gentleman  prefers  the  Director  of 
Public  Works.  You  are  asked  to  say  that  the  department  in 
which  the  intelligence  lies  that  can  supervise  this  thing  shall 
supervise  it,  the  Department  of  Public  Safety,  and  that  the 
chief  of  the  Electrical  Bureau  should  supervise  this  work. 
We  prefer  that  that  should  be  done,  and  that  you  should 
not  pass  beyond  the  general  question  of  whether  the  citi- 
zens demand  the  thing  shall  be  done,  and  not  undertake  \o 
{m>vide  the  specifications  or  construction. 

The  Same  Thing  Over  Again. 

•*  Why,  over  a  year  ago,  measures  substantially  similar  to 
these  were  presented  to  your  Councils.  The  same  gentleman 
appeared  before  Councils,  and  then  he  said  the  same  thing, 
for,  though  I  did  not  attend  your  meetings,  I  saw  the  report 
oi  it  in  the  papers.  Give  us  time,  he  then  said,  over  a  year 
ago,  and  we  will  do  this  thing.  How  much  time  does  he 
want  ?  Why,  you  are  twitted  with  the  fact  that  they  have 
gained  so  much  of  the  time  in  which  it  was  your  duty  to 
l^^ate  that  you  are  now  in  the  dying  hours  ol  your  office. 
You  were  told  over  a  year  ago,  *  Give  us  time,*  and  you  arc 
now  asked  not  to  do  it  at  all,  so  that  another  Council,  igno- 
rant of  the  subject,  may  have  these  objections,  worn  thread- 
bare n'ow  so  that  you  can  see  through  them,  before  that 
same  Council  with  the  same  objections  presented,  with 
the  same  demand  for  time.  Now  'what  does  it  amount 
to?  Why,  says  Mr.  Bullitt,  these  ordinances  are  defect- 
ive because  you  do  hot  include  within  them  a  proviso  that 
after  the  expenditure  of  from  $4,000,000  to  $5,000,000  in 
giving  this  city  rapid  transit  they  do  not  include  the  pro- 
viso that  the  whole  thing,  after  that  expenditure,  shall 


123 

be  torn  up  whenever  Councils  shall  see  fit  to  demand  it. 

Why,  gentlemen,  this  is  not  the  first  time  that  a  railroad  has 
demanded  an  ordinance  of  Councils  sanctioning  its  construc- 
tion. In  all  the  host  of  ordinances  that  you  have  passed 
where  is  there  contained  in  one  of  them  a  proviso  that  after 
the  men,  upon  the  faith  of  your  ordinances,  have  made  their 
expenditures  that  the  thing  shall  be  torn  up  at  your  will  ?  I 
am  reminded  in  connection  with  this  demand  for  time  that 
this  committee  after  these  ordinances  were  presented  in  the 
month  of  May  visited  Boston  for  the  purpose  of  informing 
itself,  so  that  it  might  legislate  intelligently.  All  that  is  to 
be  thrown  away. 

The  Guarantee  of  Self-interest. 

^ain,  gentlemen,  not  only  must  this  construction  be  un- 
der that  supervision,  but  you  have  guaranteed  for  its  construc- 
tion in  the  best  manner  that  science  will  permit,  that  best  of 
all  guarantees,  self-interest.  You  may  trust  that  when  every 
other  security  that  can  be  devised  and  can  be  given  fails.  The 
men  in  charge  of  this  enterprise  do  not  any  more  dare,  would 
no  more  dare  to  construct  this  system  without  bringing  to 
their  aid  the  best  science  and  knowledge  that  can  be  found, 
than  they  would  dare  to  fly.  Let  a  single  accident  happen 
and  let  the  person  injured  by  that  accident,  aided  by  the 
counsel  and  the  assistants  who  will  endeaver  to  make  a  case 
against  the  company,  let  a  sii^le  person  be  hurt  and  with 
that  assistance  let  there  be  but  a  weak  point  in  this  construc- 
tion, let  it  be  able  to  be  proved  that  there  was  a  single  device 
known  to  science  that  could  have  been  used  and  that  was  not 
used,  and  the  effect  of  that  omission  will  be  infinitely  greater 
than  any  cost  of  any  kind  that  could  be  devised. 

"  I  am  amazed  that  in  a  question  that  involves  the  public 
weal,  in  a  question  of  this  apparent  importance,  whether  the 
public  interest  demand  this  thing  or  not,  that  Mr.  Bullitt 
should  think  it  necessary  for  the  purposes  of  his  case,  after  all 
this  loud  parade  and  blasting  of  trumpets,  and  all  the  scare, 
should  find  it  necessary  to  get  down  and  throw  mud.  It 


124 


amounts  to  nothing  more  than  that  to  say  you  should  deny  to 
the  Traction  Company,  who  come  here  and  ask  you  to  do  this 
thing  just  because  they  ask  it,  and  that  they  should  tell  you 
that  the  Thirteenth  and  Fifteenth  Streets  Railway  was  orig- 
inally constructed  at  a  cost  of  ;$536,ooo,  and  its  stock  is  now 
selling  for;$3,8oo,ooo,  and  that  it  pays  a  dividend  of  $igopcyQ, 
Well,  gentlemen,  where  would  the  city  of  Philadelphia  have 
been  if  there  had  been  no  street  horse  passenger  railway  ? 
And  yet  Mr.  Shapley  has  shown  you  their  introduction  was 
inveighed  against  as  dangerous  to  property  and  life,  and  that 
they  were  introduced  only  with  a  stru^le,  and  at  that  time, 
when  men  then  advanced  their  money  for  their  construction, 
there  was  as  little  chance  of  gain  as  there  is  in  numberless 
other  things  where  men  have  grown  colossally  rich  by  doing 
that  which  at  the  time  seemed  most  doubtful. 

The  Traction  Company  as  a  Taxpayer. 

"  But  what  is  the  use  of  going  back  to  the  time  when  these 
railways  were  introduced  originally  in  determining  their  divi- 
dends ?  Where  are  the  men  now  that  originally  constructed 
them  ?  How  many  of  them  are  in  life,  and  of  those  that  are 
in  life  how  few  of  them  own  a  share  of  stock.  They  have  en- 
tered into  the  investments  of  this  community,  and  if  the  capi- 
tal stock  of  the  Thirteenth  and  Fifteenth  Street  Passenger 
Railwa}'  is  now  ^3,800,000,  it  represents  in  this  community 
that  much  property  for  which  the  present  holders  have  paid 
that  much,  and  the  1(190,000  that  is  so  much  inveighed 
s^inst  is  but  five  per  cent.  Why,  one  of  the  most  intelligent 
of  the  newspapers  which  opposed  this  construction  was 
bought  at  a  time  not  nearly  as  distant  as  the  construction  of 
these  railways,  if  report  be  true,  for  the  sum  of  ^i$o,ooo. 
Would  its  owners  to-day  sell  it  for  |(2,ooo,ooo  ?  The  prop- 
erty that  the  Board  of  Revision  returned  whien  it  made  its 
first  estimate  of  values  of  the  property  of  this  city  was 
valued  at  |( 300,000,000;  to-day  it  is  valued  at  ^700,000,000. 
Values  grow.  The  men  who  take  their  chances,  and  take 
them  with  judgment,  make  the  money,  and  the  capital  of 


"5 

the  community  represents  not  what  was  paid  in  the  days  of 
Penn  for  all  the  land  upon  which  Philadelphia  is  situated, 
but  what  is  paid  for  it  now  and  what  it  is  now  assessed  at 
for  taxation,  and  this  Traction  Company  that  has  been  so 
much  talked  against  as  reaping  colossal  profits  stands  thus  in 
the  community  as  a  taxpayer.  And  upon  this  subject  there 
is  more  unintelligent  criticism,  more  throwing  of  mud  with- 
out cause,  that  you  can  conceive  of. 

"  They  say,  make  these  people  do  as  the  Mayor  of  Newark 
did,  who  exacted  five  per  cent,  upon  gross  receipts.  For  the 
.year  ending  December  31st,  1891,  the  gross  receipts  of  the 
Traction  Company  were  ;^3, 54 1,621.  For  repairs  to  streets 
alone  it  paid  |>77,6o9.  It  paid  to  this  city  in  taxes  $72,962. 
It  paid  to  the  Commonwealth  for  taxes  $81,071,  and  it  paid 
for  new  streets  |{  15,000,  an  aggregate  of  $246,643,  or  seven 
per  cent,  on  gross  receipts,  and  it  paid  to  its  stockholders  a 
dividend  two  years  ^go  of  nothing,  one  year  ago  of  four  per 
cent.,  and  this  year  six  per  cent,  upon  actual  cash  paid  in,  and 
the  gentleman  tells  us  that  it  owes  the  city  for  new  Belgian 
block  pavement  $209,000,  which  will  raise  its  taxes  to  thirteen 
percent,  and  over. 

The  Traction's  Liability. 

"And  it  stands  face  to  face  with  the  liability  to  pay  from 
time  to  time  for  paving  with  new  Belgian  blocks  forty  miles 
of  its  streets  at  a  cost  of  $30,000  per  mile,  or  |l  1,200,000 ;  and 
gentlemen  who  ought  to  know,  an^  if  they  do  not  know  they 
had  better  learn,  have  the  audacity  to  say,  as  if  the  Traction 
Company  was  getting  privileges  for  nothing,  whether  the 
public  demand  it  or  not,  don't  give  a  right  to  these  people 
unless  you  make  them  pay  some  taxes.  And  then  there  is 
talk  about  being  in  arrears  and  some  special  fund  being  short. 
What  does  that  question  of  arrears  mean  ?  The  people  who 
made  their  money  out  of  the  original  construction  of  street 
passenger  railways,  as  I  say,  are  gone.  They  are  succeeded 
by  others  who  paid  high  prices  for  the  stock  that  they  now 
hold  upon  the.  belief  that  the  law  was  that  it  was  the  duty  of 
the  passenger  railway  companies  to  pave  between  the  rails, 


126 

and  only  to  repair  the  streets  outside  of  the  rails,  and  that  it 
was  not  their  duty  to  repave  the  streets  whether  Councils 
should  demand  it  or  not,  and  they  made  a  grievous  mistake, 
a  grievous  mistake  of  law,  when  they  purchased  their  property 
upon  that  supposition,  for  the  Supreme  Court  of  this  State 
has  decided  that  it  is  their  duty  to  repave,  when  the  Councils 
shall  demand,  the  whole  of  this  forty  miles  of  street.  But  as 
I  said,  of  course,  that  is  a  duty  that  will  be  exacted  by  the 
city,  of  paving  the  other  streets  in  the  same  way,  and  the  goods 
sent  will  be  used  in  adjusting  that  burden  in  such  a  way  as  to 
not  make  it  intolerable. 

"When  they  talk  about  arrears  for  the  past  paving,  it  would 
be  well  to  inquire  in  the  department  of  the  City  Solicitor, 
and  know  what  the  true  state  of  affairs  is,  which  is  this : 
When  the  city  made  its  claim  in  the  very  great  uncertainty 
as  to  whether  it  could  collect  it  or  not,  it  filed  against  every 
passenger  railway  which  crossed  the  other,  or,  as  so  many  do, 
use  the  same  track,  it  filed  the  same  bill  s^ainst  all  of  the  pas* 
senger  railways,  and  against  at  least  three  companies  in  nu- 
merous cases  the  same  bill  is  charged,  and  the  City  Solicitor 
is  now  arranging,  with  the  aid  of  the  passenger  railways,  that 
the  true  amount  of  the  bills  shall  be  ascertained,  and  in  one 
company  which  is  just  about  to  settle  the  deduction  has  been 
exceedingly  great. 

Settled  by  the  Supreme  Court. 

''Now  what  is  the  use  of  talking  that  stuff  any  more? 
Can  you  add  anything  to  the  obligation  that  the  Supreme 
Court  of  this  State  has  said  is  one  of  law  ?    An  obligation 

which  they  said,  interpreting  the  charter  as  it  has  not  been 
interpreted  before,  as  obligatory  upon  it  as  a  charter  obliga- 
tion— can  you  add  to  the  law,  and  why  should  you  therefore 
when  the  law  has  been  finally  settled  by  the  Supreme  Court 
of  this  Commonwealth  ?  The  matter  is  in  the  hands  of  the 
City  Solicitor,  who  has  energetically  pushed  the  case  to  a 
conclusion  in  which  the  city  has  won,  and  I  think  you  may 
trust  him  that  after  having  got  the  judgment  he  will  see  that 


12y 


as  soon  as  the  amount  is  properly  adjusted  the  execution  will 
issue. 

"Then  you  are  told  that  the  Mayor  vetoed  an  electric 
light  ordinance  and,  therefore,  you  should  not  pass  this.  The 
difference  between  the  electric  light  and  the  trolley  system  h 
this:  The  electric  light  can  go  underground  and  the  other 
cannot. 

"But  Mr.  Bullitt,  after  having  got  through  that  came  to 
the  scarecrow  part  of  it,  and  he  flaunted  before  you  his  seven 
thousand  two  hundred  and  sixty-three  signatures,  which 
represented,  as  he  said,  thirty-six  thousand  people,  but  under 
the  deft  fingers  of  his  junior  colleague  they  have  grown  to 
one  hundred  and  eighty  thousand.  Thank  God,  there  is  not 
a  third  speaker  on  that  side,  or,  like  the  man  in  buckram,  of 
whom  Falstaff  spoke,  there  would  have  been  five  hundred 
and  forty  thousand  if  he  had  talked. 

"  Now,  those  were  the  objections  Mr.  Bullitt  made,  and 
Mr.  Smith  added  to  them  an  unreasonable  one,  and  I  do  not 
know  how  I  can  deal  with  that— that  the  ordinance  is  de- 
fective in  that  it  does  not  provide  for  compensation  for  the 
trees  that  may  be  cut  down  when  the  wires  are  put  up. 

"  After  we  have  paid  out  four  or  five  millions  of  dollars^  if 
there  are  a  few  trees  to  go,  well ! 

"  Now,  how  were  these  signatures  obtained  ?  I  remember— 
for  all  young  lawyers  go  through  the  experience  of  prac- 
ticing by  addressing  public  audiences  in  little  country  towns 
at  political  meetings— and  I  remember  how  in  my  early  youth 
(I  would  to  God  I  could  return  to  it,  even  with  the  dis- 
advantage of  a  slim  audience)  I  was  invited  to  speak  in  a 
country  town.  I  think  it  was  Doylestown.  It  was  the  occa- 
sion of  my  life,  and  I  saw  placarded  around  the  town  in  letters 
as  big  as  those  you  have  seen  on  the  dirt  piles  and  on  the 
brick-heaps : — 

"*  Great  Political  Meeting. 

"  *  Come  as  the  winds  come  when  forests  are  rendered, 
"  *  Come  as  the  waves  come  when  navies  are  stranded,* 

and  1  went  there  and  there  were  three  people  to  hear  me. 
(Laughter.) 


128 


" '  It  is  highly  important  that  members  of  Council  (here  Mr. 
Johnson  read  from  an  anti-trolley  circular)  should  realize  the 
universal  popular  repugnance  to  this  scheme,  and  this  can  best 

be  obtained  at  present  by  a  large  attendance  at  this  meeting. 
It  is  therefore  reasonably  hoped  that  you  will  be  present.*  Of 
the  one  million  one  hundred  thousand  thus  abjured  to  be 
present,  how  many  have  cared  to  come  ?  It  is  true  that  they 
scared  out  of  their  retirement  Mr.  Joshua  Bailey  and  Mr. 
Lockwood.  They  were  tempted  from  their  seclusion  and  al- 
most tempted  to  break  that  silence  they  love  so  well. 
[Laughter.] 

A  Cure  for  Prevarication. 

"  Why,  gentlemen,  the  day  will  come — ^yes,  and  will  come 
goon — when  they  will  be  ashamed  of  tactics  like  this.  If  you 
have  a  good  cause  you  need  no  misrepresentation.  My  friend, 
Mr.  Shapley,  reminds  me  of  a  panacea  which  I  saw  adver- 
tised in  the  Philadelphia  Times  a  few  days  ago.  Some  one 
had  discovered  bichloride  of  aluminum  which  would  be  a  sure 
cure,  if  properly  injected,  for  prevarication.  (Laughter.)  But 
1  do  not  think  a  bichloride  is  strong  enough.  They  want  a 
quinitichloride,  or  something  else. 

"  But  it  remained  for  Mr.  Smith  to  bring  out  that  black  map. 
As  if  the  death-head  and  cross-bones  were  not  sufficient,  he 
turned  it  all  black.  Sympathy !  Why,  you  know  if  you  have 
a  pain  in  one  eye,  the  other  pains,  and  the  citizens  of  Spruce 
and  Pine  Streets  feel  that  the  citizens  on  Chestnut  and  Wal- 
nut Streets  would  be  so  sympathetic  that  they  turn  black, 
too,  and  they  have  got  them  all  black.  But  here  is  a  thing 
they  ought  to  be  ashamed  of.  *  The  report  of  the  Massa- 
chusetts Railroad  Commissioner  (here  Mr.  Johnson  again 
quoted  from  the  anti-trolley  circular)  shows  that  for  the  year 
ending  September  30th,  1891,  the  number  of  victims  of  the 
trolley  system  on  one  company's  line  in  Boston  were — that  is 
all  black,  too— killed  fifteen,  wounded  two  hundred  and 
thirty-nine;  total,  two  hundred  and  fifty-four,  and  under- 
scored, lest  the  citizens  should  not  see  it'  *  All  citizens  should 
unite  in  the  effort  to  protect  Philadelphia  from  the  introduc- 


129 


tion  of  a  sj^tem  so  destructive  to  life  and  property.'  Yet  in 
your  own  hearing  the  gentleman  who  volunteered  to  give 
these  statistics  admitted  that  not  one  of  them  was  killed  or 
wounded  by  the  electric  current.  It  is  inseparable  from  the 
doing  of  business,  and  of  transportation  by  any  system  in  a 
crowded  city  that  some  men  shall  be  killed  and  some  men 
shall  be  wounded,  and,  great  heavens,  what  would  become  of 
our  profession  if  it  were  not  so? 

"  Does  any  one  pretend  to  say  that  more  were  not  killed 
when  the  horse-cars  were  running  ?  There  is  no  doubt  that 
most  worthy  people— people  that  many  of  us  love— that  more 
of  us  respect— have  signed  this  paper  believing  that  the  trolley 
system  would  be  a  serious  injury  to  them.  That  paper  is  not 
an  emanation  of  chance.  That  paper  is  by  order  of  whom  ? 
By  order  of  the  Union  Committee,  opposing  traction  ordi- 
nances  for  the  introduction  of  trolley  wires  in  Philadelpliia, 
because  that  one  Boston  railroad  line— and  that  railroad  line 
has  nearly  all  of  Boston's  lines— killed  that  many  people,  and 
that,  therefore,  their  lives  were  in  danger.  They  admit— Mr. 
Smith  admits— that  on  investigation  he  finds  it  is  not  danger- 
ous. The  last  pronunciamento  of  the  committee  is  to  the 
effect  that  the  more  it  is  examined  the  more  dangerous  it  is 
found  to  be,  and  that  a  united  effort  should  be  made  to  save 
Philadelphia  from  the  experience  of  other  cities.  The  bi- 
chloride is  not  strong  enough. 

After  One  Year's  Protest. 

"  If  there  is  any  harm  to  be  done  by  it,  the  materials  and 
the  opportunity  to  discover  it,  after  this  year  of  retaining  Mr. 
Bullitt,  ought  to  be  at  hand.  How  did  they  do  it  ?  Mr. 
Smith  admits  that  he  said  something  wrong  about  the  killing 
of  the  boy  by  a  trolley  wire  in  Columbia,  where  there  is  no 
trolley  wire.  But  somebody  says  that  somebody  told  him 
that  he  heard  it  That  is  about  the  sort  of  testimony  we  have 
had  here.  It  reminds  us  of  the  old  doggrel,  'And  the  parson 
told  the  sexton  and  the  sexton  tolled  the  bell.'  (Laughter.) 

"  If  it  were  true  that  danger  lurked  in  this  thing,  if  they  had 
wanted  to,  how  could  they  have  gone  about  discovering  it  ? 


There  are  two  hundred  and  fifty  towns  in  which  it  is  intro- 
duced— some  of  them  the  largest  cities  in  the  Union.  They 
could  have  inquired  of  the  mayors  of  those  cities,  and  if  it 
had  been  dangerous  to  life  and  property  they  would  probably, 
some  of  them,  have  told  the  truth.  This  matter  has  been 
fought  in  almost  every  city,  and  has  been  the  subject  of  the 
most  elaborate  investigation,  and  if  anything  had  been  discov- 
ered they  could  have  ascertained  it  by  this  method  of  pro- 
cedure. There  have  been  trials  in  court,  there  have  been 
men  called  under  oath,  and  if  there  was  anything  dangerous 
in  the  system  they  could  have  pointed  to  them. 

"  Insurance  business  is  done  in  every  city  of  the  Union.  If 
it  had  increased  the  risk  they  could  very  easily  have  produced 
statistics.  There  are  bureaus  of  vital  statistics  in  all  towns, 
and  if  there  had  been  deaths  or  injury  to  property  they  could 
have  found  it  out. 

"  There  are  electricians  in  this  country  who  are  not  favora- 
ble to  the  trolley  system,  but  who  thoroughly  understand  the 
electric  system  of  propelling  cars.  They  could  have  called 
them.  Did  they  do  it  ?  Not  one  of  them  did  they  call. 
They  called  two  young  gentlemen  who  did  not  know  any- 
thing about  electricity  by  profession — I  will  not  say  by  profes- 
sion— ^by  trade — ^who  knew  everything  by  profession.  They 
called  no  man  from  amongst  the  great  electricians  of  the 
country  to  give  you  any  information  upon  the  subject. 
Why  ?  Because  they  very  well  knew  that  if  they  called 
them  they  would  find  nothing  in  it.  This  is  what  they  did, 
yet  this  was  a  great  emei^ency. 

How  Information  was  Obtained. 

"  The  mayor  of  Newark  had  been  called  to  tell  you  how 
this  S3rstem  worked,  and  they  felt  it  necessary  to  detail  their 
best  forces;  and  the  gentlemen  who  signed  this  paper  as 
chairman  and  Mr.  Stokes  went,  like  the  navigators  of  the 
olden  time,  in  search  of  the  Holy  Grail.  This  is  the  way 
they  went  about  getting  information  that  would  be  of  value 
to  you.  They  first  went,  in  order  to  be  sure  and  solid,  to  a 
couple  of  lawyers  to  whom  Mr.  Bullitt  sent  them.  Exhaust- 


\ 


^3^ 

ing.that  matter,  they  stopped  people  going  along  the  street. 
They  fixed  them  with  a  glittering  eye  like  the  ancient  mariner, 
and  they  asked  them,  unlike  the  ancient  mariner,  to  tell  the 
tale.    And  whilst  the  oysters  were  stewing  Mr.  Stokes  inter- 
viewed the  man  in  charge  of  the  stew-pot.    (Laughter.)  The 
result  was  the  exceedingly  valuable  information  they  gave 
you.    Since  the  time  of  John  Phoenix  there  has  never  been 
an  investigation  like  that.  He  belonged  to  the  United  States 
Coast  Survey,  and  it  became  necessary  for  him  to  know  the 
length  of  the  main  street  in  San  Francisco.    He  was  duly 
armed  with  a  tripod,  and,  not  having  any  preliminary  instruc- 
tion in  the  ascertaining  of  distances,  he  would  put  it  down 
there  and  there  and  he  soon  got  tired.    He  found  that  would 
not  do  and  he  bethought  himself  of  a  predometer.    He  fixed 
that  to  the  heel  of  his  shoe  and  it  was  a  great  success,  until 
very  like  Mr.  Stokes— for  history  repeats  itself— he  went 
down  to  so  many  saloons  that  the  predometer  soon  measured 
a  thousand  miles.    (Laughter.)    After  having  exhausted  this 
matter  he  asked  the  omnibus  driver  and  was  told  it  was  three 
miles,  and  that  appears  in  the  records  of  the  Coast  Survey. 

"  What  is  the  damage  done  ?  What  have  they  shown  you  ? 
They  talk  about  the  disfigurement  by  the  erection  of  poles,  as 
if  three  tiny  poles  in  every  block  would  add  much  to  the  dis- 
figurement of  our  main  streets.  Mr.  Shapley  has  depicted  in 
a  way  that  I  cannot  equal  how  much  they  add  to  the  disfig- 
urement of  Shippen  and  the  other  streets.  What  about  the 
disfigurement  caused  by  this  Council,  which  has  voted  for 
^20,000,000  which  has  been  spent  on  the  Public  Buildings, 
and  has  voted  that  an  elevated  road  shall  be  put  around  tliem. 
The  less  talk  about  disfigurement  the  better.  That  was  done 
under  the  guise  of  a  necessity,  and  disfigurement  cropped  out 

Mr.  Elverson's  Printing-Presses. 

"And  then,  the  noise.  Why,  when  these  gentlemen  told 
these  pathetic  tales  of  the  sleepless  nights  in  the  hot  summer, 
when  they  will  probably  all  be  out  of  town^but  still,  if  you 
are  too  literal,  it  will  spoil  the  pathos— when  they  told  their 
sad  and  pathetic  tales  of  how  they  would  lie  awake  at  night. 


132 

listening  to  that  noise,  it  reminded  me  of  an  attempt  to  get: 
an  injunction  to  stop  a  printing-press  at  the  comer  of  Ninth 
and  Spruce,  where  the  would-be  injunctor  was  a  lawyer.  He- 
had  sworn  that  the  noise  of  these  printing-presses  was  per- 
fectly intolerable,  that  his  family  had  no  sleep,  his  wife,  who 
was  an  exceedingly  plump  and  pretty  woman,  was  worn  to« 
skin  and  bone  by  sleeplessness,  and  his  baby — he  had  a  great 
many  children — his  baby  was  becoming  a  skeleton.  We  were- 
on  the  eve  of  having  a  permanent  injunction  issued  against 
the  establishment,  had  cost  ^ioo,cx>o  to  construct,  when,  in 
desperation,  the  court  appointed  three  practical  men  to  go  to 
the  premises  and  investigate.    They  were  entirely  disinter- 
ested, and  some  months  afterwards  they  came  in  with  a  re- 
port that  they  could  hear  no  noise  that  in  the  slightest  d^ee- 
interfered  with  their  comfort,  and  I  ascertained  how  they  ar- 
rived at  their  conclusion.    These  printing-presses  were  de- 
picted in  the  testimony  as  making  a  noise  like  Niagara,  and 
the  master,  living  in  the  country,  had  come  down  to  the  city- 
and  had  slept  there  all  night,  and  found  he  could  not  sleep.. 
This  was  probably  due  to  the  lobster  salad  they  gave  him. 
But  these  three  disinterested  experts  went  into  the  premises- 

and  said  to  Mrs.  ,  *Are  the  presses  running  now  ?'  She 

said  :  '  I  really  do  not  know,  but  I  will  send  Georgie  around 
to  find  out'  (Laughter.)  That  is  the  sort  of  a  noise  we  will' 
have  here.  In  consideration  of  the  fact  that  you  have  fast- 
ened upon  me,  as  a  resident  of  Broad  Street,  the  damnable 
noise  of  the  omnibuses,  I  have  little  sympathy  for  you  if  you 
must  hear  the  little  whirring  noise  which  these  trolleys  may 
make. 

No  Danger  from  Fire. 

"  Then  this  danger  of  fire  being  introduced  into  the  house.. 
Well,  that  does  require  cash  outlay  to  prevent,  and  I  think 
they  had  better  put  this  man  who  agrees  to  reduce  the  cost 
from  seventy-five  to  twenty  cents  in  the  ordinance,  providing 
he  sticks  to  his  bargain.  That  there  is  no  danger  by  fire,  Mr. 
Shapley  has  already  told  you.  All  the  testimony  concerning" 
these  two  hundred  and  fifty  cities  in  which  they  have  the^ 
trolley  system  s^ees  in  showing  there  has  never  been  an  in- 


133 


<:rease  in  the  rate  of  insurance.  Mr.  Smith  told  you  he  did 
not  know  but  what  they  would  have  to  put  up  the  rates  of 
insurance  here.  What  a  pity  they  did  not  wait  a  month. 
Here  is  a  paper  received  on  February  26th,  1892.  If  it  was 
March  26th,  after  this  ordinance  would  be  passed,  this  notice 
■would  be  the  result  of  the  introduction  of  the  trolley  wire- 
But  unfortunately,  they  made  history  a  little  too  early.  The 
Philadelphia  underwriters  say:  *We  hereby  agree  that  all 
tates  as  published  shall  be  advanced  twenty  per  cent.—this 
advance  to  be  applied  by  members  at  their  counters.' 

"There  is  not  a  word  of  testimony  that  any  fires  have  oc- 
<:urred.    No  one  undertakes  to  deny  that  it  can  be  absolutely 
guaranteed  against,  and  the  insurance  rates  have  never  been 
increased.    *Oh,'  they  say,  'the  wires  might  drop;  there 
•might  come  a  storm  and  that  storm,  might  be  a  malicious  and 
malignant  sort  of  a  storm,  and  it  might  sweep  under  these 
telephone  wires  with  one  grand  swoop  and  sweep  it  on  to  the 
trolley  wire,  and  that  infernal  and  malicious  telephone  wire, 
thus  impelled  in  that  extraordinary  way,  might  tumble  on  the 
trolley  wke,  and  the  trolley  wire  might  break,  and  it  might  be 
a  stormy  night,  but  notwithstanding  the  storm  that  knocked 
it  down  it  might  be  dry,  and  there  might  be  a  man  under  it 
with,  as  Mr.  Smith  suggested,  the  heart  disease— and  heaven 
only  knows  what  would  happen.    It  reminds  me  of  the  ex- 
traordinary  care  with  which  Mrs.  Toodles  provided  gainst 
the  possibility  of  Toodles,  who  was  then  in  fairiy  good  health, 
unexpectedly  dying,  and  her  marrying  a  man  by  the  name  of 
Thompson— Thompson  with  a  'p'— and   guarding  against 
his  dying  by  buying  a  cofifin  plate  with  •  Thompson '  on  it- 
Thompson  with  a  'p.'    There  is  nothing  like  taking  care  of 
things. 

What  Edison  Swore  To. 

"  Just  let  me  read  what  no  less  a  man  than  Thomas  A. 
Edison  said,  not  in  a  speech— for  talk  is  so  easy— but  under 
oath  in  a  judicial  proceeding  : — 

"  *  Q.  What  is  the  voltage  of  the  current  employed  in  oper- 
atmg  the  Sprague  system  of  single  trolley  overhead  wires? 

"  *  A.  About  five  hundred  volts. 


134 

"  *  Q.  State  whether  or  not  the  current  so  employed  is  dan- 
gerous to  the  life  of  hum'an  beings  or  animals,  and  the  reason 
you  have  for  your  statement  concerning  the  same. 

"  '  A.  I  do  not  consider  five  hundred  volts  as  dangerous  to 
either  human  life  or  animals,  but,  by  special  appliances  which 
have  been  brought  out  in  the  investigation  for  killing  crimi- 
nals, conducted  at  my  laboratory  for  the  State  of  New  York,  I 
believe  it  is  possible  to  produce  death  by  a  somewhat  con- 
tinued application  of  five  hundred  volts. 

"  '  Q.  In  what  form  of  current  supplying  that  voltage  ? 

"  *  A.  In  the  continuous  current,  with  the  alternating  cur- 
rent, &c.  As  I  said,  it  first  required  special  appliances  ta 
the  person,  and  some  continued  application  of  the  currents 
These  conditions  could  never  arise  by  accident. 

"  *  Q.  Have  you  testified  on  this  subject  of  dangerous  cur- 
rents ;  and,  if  so,  where  and  before  what  bodies  or  courts  ? 

"  *  A.  I  have  testified  before  a  commission  sent  by  the  court 
in  Buffalo  in  the  case  of  Kemmler  sentenced  to  death  by 
electricity.  I  have  also  testified  as  to  experiments  conducted 
for  the  State  before  a  grand  jury  in  New  York  City.' 

"  *  They  say  the  values  of  property  will  decrease.  I  know 
Mr.  Courtland  Parker,  one  of  the  two  Newark  lawyers.  If 
he  had  been  here  and  knew  the  exigencies  of  the  situation 
he  would  not  have  said  what  was  said.  He  would  have  been 
silent  on  the  subject  of  values.  He  said  the  values  in  the 
centre  of  the  city  had  not  been  diminished,  but  the  values  in 
the  suburbs  had  increased,  but  not  to  as  great  an  extent  as- 
had  been  expected.  Do  you  believe  that  the  value  of  prop- 
erty in  the  suburbs  will  not  be  greatly  increased  ?  Do  you 
not  know  what  makes  the  value  of  property  in  the  centre  of 
the  city  ?  It  is  the  accessibility  of  the  suburbs  to  the  centre 
of  the  city.  Deprive  the  Chestnut  Street  merchants  and  the 
other  people  doing  business  in  the  centre  of  the  city  of  easy 
access  to  the  centre  of  the  city  from  the  suburbs  and  the  val- 
ues of  their  property  will  decrease. 

"  The  suburbs  grow  by  reason  of  their  easy  access  to  the 
centre  of  the  city,  and  the  centre  of  the  city  grows  in  value 
because  the  suburbs  have  access  to  it. 


135 


Mr.  Farrelly's  Bluff. 

"  Now,  on  that  subject  of  values,  we  had  some  significant 
testimony  from  Mr.  Farrelly.  What  brought  Mr.  Farrelly 
here  I  do  not  know.  I  think  his  business  afifiliations  are  here. 
He  came  here  and  told  you  that  he  would  sell  his  property 
for  $$000  less  if  this  ordinance  was  passed,  and  when  a  writ- 
ten contract  was  signed — Mr.  Bullitt  said  he  would  guarantee 
his  offer— both  Mr.  Bullitt  and  Mr.  Farrelly  escaped  from 
the  contract  in  this  way:  Mr.  Farrelly  said  I  did  not  mean  I 
would  sell  it  for  ^5000  less  than  what  it  was  now  worth,  but 
115000  less  than  what  I  asked  for  it  some  time  a^o;  and  Mr. 
Bullitt  escaped  from  his  guarantee  by  talking  about  the 
money-changers  in  the  temple.  That  was  a  bad  time  to  quote 
Scripture.  He  backed  the  wager  and  then  he  backed  out.  That 
is  like  Mr.  Smith's  trees.  Amid  all  this  wreck  there  arises  to 
the  surface  Mr.  Smith's  trees  and  the  bicycle  ridere  that  it 
would  interfere  with.    I  wish  to  G<xi  it  would. 

Real  Advantages  of  the  Measure. 

"Now,  gentlemen,  so  much  for  these  perils  evolved  from 
the  lively  imagination  of  counsel.  What  are  the  real  advan- 
tages of  this  measure  ?  You  have  been  twitted  that  some  of 
you  are  going  out  of  office.  This  question  of  rapid  transit  has 
unseated  many  of  your  members.  You  have  been  compelled 
under  this  demand,  which  is  louder  than  the  roar  of  the  ocean, 
to  make  every  interest  yield,  and  you  have  fastened  upon 
this  city  by  ordinance,  under  clamor  and  demand,  a  most 
damnable  nuisance.  Under  a  demand,  imperative,  overrid- 
ing, and  dominating,  you  have  been  compelled  to  fasten 
upon  this  city  the  most  damnable  nuisance  that  was 
ever  devised — an  elevated  railroad.  You  have  had  to  do  it 
under  the  stress  of  this  demand.  Men  have  lost  their  seats 
in  Council  because  they  didn't  yield  to  that  demand.  You 
have  passed  an  ordinance  planting  in  one  of  our  great  busi- 
ness streets  an  elevated  road;  and  another  ordinance  planting 
another  on  Ridge  Avenue,  and  another  on  Front  Street. 


136 

Why  ?  Because  it  gratified  the  artistic  taste  or  the  aesthetic 
sense;  because  it  did  not  injure  or  destroy  the  streets  ?  No. 
Because  you  were  compelled,  on  account  of  the  demand,  to 
sacrifice  the  few  for  the  many.  What  is  the  result  ?  There 
is  no  more  possibility  of  the  city  of  Philadelphia  having  rapid 
transit  from  elevated  railroads  than  there  is  of  a  direct  inter- 
position of  heav^  in  that  respect.  It  won't  pay.  However 
those  railways  are  constructed,  they  will  not  pay  any  person 
to  take  chaise  of  them,  and  to  run  them,  taking  into  considera- 
tion the  cost  of  the  plant.  They  are  simply  impossible.  If 
they  undertook  to  stop  at  every  square,  or  midway  in  a  square, 
then  their  rapid  transit  would  be  slower  than  a  horse-car.  No 
one  is  going  to  climb  up  a  high  pair  of  stairs,  nor  go  down  a 
long  pair  of  stairs,  in  order  to  reach  them.  No  men  are  going 
to  sacrifice  ^10,000,000  to  construct  a  thing  which  would  be 
a  certain  loss.    That  you  all  know. 

"  Now,  to  these  Councils  there  has  been  a  demand  made, 
great  and  overpowering,  that  rapid  transit  shall  be  afforded. 
To  that  demand  it  has  been  opposed  that  great  injury  would 
be  inflicted.  You  have  been  talked  to  and  talked  to  about 
this — about  these  trifling,  insignificant  disadvantages,  as  stand- 
ing in  the  way  of  rapid  transit.  All  that  you  know,  because 
you  have  heard  it  here.  But,  on  the  other  hand,  we  iiave 
called  before  you  here  men  who,  while  it  is  true  that  they  are 
interested  in  the  business,  are  men  who  commended  themselves 
to  your  judgment  by  what  they  said,  men  whose  cross-exam- 
ination only  made  their  testimony  the  stronger  and  more  im- 
pressive, men  whom  no  one  has  dared  to  contradict ;  you  have 
heard  them,  and  from  them  you  know  that  there  is  no  possi- 
bility of  any  electric  system  but  the  trolley  wire  giving 
rapid  transit,  that  the  underground  system  is  a  myth,  and 
that  the  storage-battery  system  is  bosh. 

What  the  Trolley  System  Will  Do. 

"  Now,  in  giving  you  this  rapid  transit,  just  look  at  the  map. 
You  will  pass  ordinances  to  bring  West  Philadelphia  into 
direct  contact  with  the  city,  and  Darby  with  West  Philadel- 


phia ;  and  ordinances  to  bring  Kensington  and  Frankford  in, 
and  the  extreme  northwestern  portions  of  the  city  with  the 
extreme  eastern  portions  and  southwestern  portions.  But, 
they  say,  you  cannot  run  more  than  so  many  miles  an  hour. 
Is  it  so  that  God  Almighty  has  decided  upon  six  miles  an 
hour  as  the  absolute  maximum  of  speed  ?    What  does  rapid 
transit  mean?    It  means  that  you  are  to  have  something 
which  will  enable  you  to  made  a  combination  in  time  so  as 
to  make,  as  one  of  the  witnesses  put  it,  a  combination  which 
will  insure  greater  speed.    You  cannot  have  a  system  by 
which  electric  cars  will  run  simply  in  the  outskirts  and  then 
have  to  take  on  horses  in  order  to  run  the  balance  of  the 
route.    Nobody  would  run  a  road  in  that  way.    The  people 
would  not  submit  to  the  loss  of  time  required  for  transhipment 
from  the  electric  cars.    The  testimony  of  all  the  cities  which 
have  adopted  this  plan  is  that  there  have  always  been  exten- 
sions of  the  plan — that  there  are  constantly  growing  exten- 
sions of  the  plan ;  the  fact  faces  you  that  when  once  that 
plan  has  been  adopted  there  has  never  been  any  recesion 
from  it,  so  that  practical  experience  has  demonstrated  the 
fact  that  by  that  system  you  have  real  rapid  transit  from  every 
part  of  the  town. 

The  Gibe  of  Comic  Papers. 

"  There  are  minor  advantages  of  larger  and  cleaner  cars,  of 
an  ability  to  stop  more  rapidly,  of  the  taking  off  your  streets 
the  filth  that  comes  from  the  use  of  horses,  and  questions  of 
humanity.  All  these  are  great,  but  they  constitute  minor 
considerations.  On  the  one  hand  you  have  some  disad- 
vantages which  amount  to  but  little,  and  on  the  other  hand 
you  have  advantages,  which  are  very  great.  What  is  the 
answer  to  it  all  ?  Wait !  Wait !  Gentlemen,  this  city  has 
waited  too  long.  At  the  time  of  the  Revolution  this  was  a 
great  city— a  leader  in  the  Union.  To-day  the  comic  papers 
of  the  country  make  it  a  gibe.  You  have  sunk  to  the  third 
place  by  the  last  census,  and  God  only  knows  where  you  will 
sink  to  by  the  next  Wait!  Wait!  You  have  waited.  What 


The  Tnoum  $y$te;m. 


Used  in  over  two  hundred  cities  in  this  country — 
By  over  three  hundred  street  railway  com- 
panies— Upon  forty  hundred  and  sixty-two 
miles  of  track,  and  operating  seventy -one 
hundred  and  eighty- one  electric  cars. 


In  view  of  the  heated  controversy  now  being  waged 
over  the  ordinances  to  permit  the  use  in  this  city  of 
electric  cars  propelled  by  the  Trolley  System,  it  will 
be  found  interesting  to  look  over  the  following  list 
of  cities  where  the  use  of  the  system  has  been  per- 
mitted, and  of  companies  which  have  adopted  and  are 
using  it. 

It  is  to  be  presumed  that  it  has  not  been  adopted  by 
over  three  hundred  street  railway  companies,  at  a  cost 
of  over  $155,000,000,  operating  seventy-one  hundred 
and  eighty-one  cars  over  forty  hundred  and  sixty-two 
miles  of  track,  and  its  use  permitted  by  over  two 
hundred  cities  and  large  towns,  especially  cities  like 
Boston,  where  it  has  been  longest  in  use,  until  they 
were  all  thoroughly  satisfied  that  the  objections  now 
urged  against  its  introduction  here  were  wholly 
groundless. 


140 

List  of  Cities  and  Towns  Where  Electric  Roads 
(Trolley  System)  are  in  Operation  and  Being 
Constructed. 

,  MlUSS  OF 

Location.  cars. 


Location.                                                                          ^^^^^  Cars. 

Brooklyn,  N.  Y   g^o 

Boston,  Mass  

Baltimore,  Md   „  -g 

Pittsburgh,  Pa.  ::::::::::  120 

Cleveland.  O   ^ 

St.  Louis,  Mo   87  217 

Cincinnati,  O.   285 

Louisville,  Ky   80 

Indianapolis,  Ind.   27  xi 

Rochester,  N.  Y.   60  100 

Syracuse,  N.  Y   31 

Minneapolis,  Minn   127  200 

"    75  100 

Omaha,  Neb   ^ 

Mnjss  OF 

Location.                          Namb  of  Road.  track  Cars 

New  Albany  .  Ind.      New  Albany  Elec.  Ry   2  '  6 

Indianapolis  .  *•        Citizens  SL  Ry.  Co   27  31 

Richmond  .  .  "        Richmond  City  Ry.  Co  13  16 

So.  Bend  ..."        So.  B.  &  Mishawaka  Ry   10  16 

Terre  Haute.   "        Terre  Haute  St.  Ry.  Co   8  48 

Anderson   .  .   "        Anderson  Elec.  St.  Ry.  Co   2  4 

Elkhart    ..."        Elkhart  Elec.  Ry.  Co.   7  h 

Lafayette    .  .  "         Lafayette  St.  Ry.  Co   4  9 

Marion     ..."         Marion  St.  Ry.  Co   jo  n 

Logansport    .    "         Logansport  Ry.  Co   4  4 

Boise  City  .  .  Idaho.    Boise  Rapid  Tran.  Co  [  3  2 

Ottumwa  .  .  .  Iowa.    Ottumwa  Ry.  Elec.  &  Steam  Co.  .  .  5  8 

Council  Bluflfe,     "       Omaha  &  C.  B.  Ry.  Co                  .  20  56 

Burlington  .  .      "       The  Burlington  Elec.  Ry.  Co.   .  .  .  n  19 

Dubuque  .  .     "       Key  City  Elec.  St.  Ry.  Co   2  4 

Des  Momes  .     «       Des  Moines  St.  Ry.  Co   40  47 

Dubuque  .  .     "       Elec.  Ry.  L.  &  P.  Co   10  i6 

Davenport    .     "       Davenport  &  Rock  IslandvRy.  ...  25  50 

Davenport    .     "       Davenport  Central  Ry.  Co   7  16 

Clinton  ...     "      State  Electric  Co   7  g 

Sioux  City  .        "       Sioux  City  SL  Ry  Co.   18  43 

Sioux  City.  .     "      S.  C.  &  Riverside  Park  Ry   8  11 

Kansas  City  .  Kansas  West  Side  Ry.  Co   4  6 

Wichita  ...      "       Wichita  Elec.  Ry.  Co  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  23  25 

Ft.  Scott  .  .      "       Ft.  S.  Rapid  Tran.  Ry.  Co   6  14 


141 


Miles  of 


Location. 

Miles  < 

Name  of  Road.  Tsac-v 

OP 
.  Cars. 

Topeka  .  . 

.  Kansas 

.   1  opeKa  Rapid  Trans.  &  R.  R.  Co.  . 

18 

30 

Kansas  City 

(( 

v..onsoiiaatea  City  and  C.  P.  Ry 

2 

4 

Paducah  . 

.  Ky. 

raaucan  bt.  Kailway  Co  

8 

19 

Covington  . 

(( 

T^o.  i^ov.  &  Cm.  St.  Ry.  Co  

30 

22 

Maysville  . 

II 

Maysville  bt.  Ky.  Co  

4 

II 

Lexington 

(( 

rassenger  &  Belt  Ry.  .     .  . 

12 

31 

Louisville 

.  Ky. 

central  rass.  Ry.  Co  

22 

35 

Shreveport  . 

.  La. 

bhieveport  Ry.  &  Land  Imp.  Co. 

5 

4- 

Bangor 

.  Me. 

PiiKli/->  \\7'<->.-I-f.  /~*^ 

ruuiic  vvorKs  Co.  . 

8 

II 

Portland  . 

II 

• 

1  oriiand  K.  K.  Co. 

3 

7 

Augusta  . 

<i  - 

Aug.  Hallowell  &  Gardner  Ry. 

8 

7 

Baltimore 

.  Md. 

iMO.  Ave.  Ky.  Co  

3 

6 

Bay  Ridge  . 

II 

5 

3 

Ciunberland 

II 

^umoeriand  Liec.  Ry.  Co  

5 

18 

Lansing  .  . 

.  Mich. 

Lansing  City  Ry.  Co  

8 

12 

Detroit    .  . 

II 

• 

uetroit,  Rouge  River  &  D.  Ry.  . 

2 

I 

Neguanee  . 

II 

• 

Neguanee  &  Ishpeming  S.  Ry.  . 

3 

4 

Grand  Rapii 

is  " 

Consohdated  St  Ry.  Co  

22 

41 

Adrian .  .  . 

II 

Adrian  City  Elec.  Belt  Ry.  .  . 

3 

3 

Saginaw  .  . 

(1 

* 

Saginaw  Union  St.  Ry.  Co  

30 

30 

Ironwood 

<i 

• 

Twin  City  Ry.  ... 

3 

3 

Menominee 

m 

Menominee  Elec.  Ry.  &  P.  Co.    .  . 

4 

9 

west  Bay  City  " 

West  Bay  City  St.  Ry.  Co  

8 

22- 

Ann  Arbor  . 

• 

Ann  Arbor  St  Ry.  Co.  .  . 

5 

7 

Marquette  . 

II 

• 

Marquette  City  &  Presque  Isle  R.  C. 

4 

5 

Battle  Creek 

II 

Battle  Creek  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

8 

16. 

Detroit    .  . 

II 

• 

Highland  Park  Ry.  Co. 

3 

4 

Muskegon  . 

II 

• 

Muskegon  Rv. 

13 

33 

Jackson    .  . 

II 

• 

Jackson  St  Ry.  Co  

12 

Port  Huron 

5 

»3 

Quincy  .  .  . 

.  Mass. 

Manet  St.  Ry.  Co.  . 

4 

4^ 

Newbury  port 

II 

» 

Newburyport  &  Amesbury  H.  R.  R. 

20 

23 

No.  Adams  . 

• 

Hoosac  Val.  Lt.  &  Ry.  Co.  .... 

6 

New  Bedford 

II 

• 

Union  St.  Ry.  Co. 

3 

7 
12 

*  Marlborough 

«4 

• 

Marlborough  St.  Ry.  Co.  ..... 

3 

6 

Gloucester  . 

.  " 

Gloucester  Ry.  Co. 

9 

28. 

FIttsfield  .  . 

fi 

Pittsfield  Elec.  St.  Ry.  Co  

3 

Salem  .  . 

.  Mass. 

f^aumkeag  St.  Ry.  Co  [  ] 

37 

4 
24 

Salem  .  .  . 

.    "  ] 

Essex  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co  

5 

6 

'  Newburyport 

II 

Black  Rks.  &  Salisbury  Beach  St. 

21 

3 

Lawrence 

II 

Memmack  Valley  St.  Ry.  Co.  .  .  . 

18 

16 

Borckton  .  . 

«i 

East  Side  St  Ry.  Co;  . 

10 

Holyoke  .  . 

.  i 

Holyoke  St  Ry.  Co  

7 

14 
26. 

142 

Miles  of 

Location.  Name  of  Road.                      Track.  Cars. 

Revere  ....  Mass.  Boston  and  Revere  Elec.  Ry.  Co.    .     4  5 

Leicester  .  .  .     "  Worcester,  Leicester  &  Spenser  St. 

RyCo   13  16 

West  Bay  C.  .  Mich.     West  Bay  City  St.  Ry.  Co                    9  22 

West  Newton  .  Mass.     Newton  St.  Ry.  Co                            5  21 

Plymouth    .  .     **  Plymouth  &  Kingston  St.  Ry.  Co.  .      6  5 

Quincy  ....     '*  Quincy  &  Boston  St.  Ry.  Co.    .  .  .      9  14 

Springfield  .  .     **       Springfield  St.  Ry.  Co   23  44 

No.  Attleboro.     *'  A.  No.  A.  &  Wenthan  St.  Ry.   ...      6  19 

Lynn    ....     *'       Lynn  Belt  Line  St.  Ry.  Co   10  20 

Helena     .  .  .  Mont.    Helena  Elec.  Ry.  Co  -  .      9  17 

Butte    ....    "       Biitte  Consolidated  Ry.  Co   18  29 

Helena    ...     **       Hele'na  Elec.  Ry.  Co                          8  19 

Anaconda   .  .     **  Elec.  Ry.,  Light  &  Power  Co.      .  .      5  20 

Great  Falls  .  .     "       Great  Falls  St.  Ry.  Co                        9  9 

Sault  St  Marie,  Mich.    S.  S.  M.  St.  Ry.  Co                          4  5 

Stillwater    .  .  Minn.    Stillwater  St.  Ry.  Co                          5  6 

St  Paul  ...    "       St.  P.  City  Ry.  Co                       .  75  100 

Duluth ....    "       Motor  Line  Imp.  Co                          3  4 

Duluth ....     "       Ehiluth  St  Ry   28  41 

Kansas  City  .  Mo.  n  g 

Helena    .  .  .  Mont.    Helena  Elec.  Ry.  Co   8  15 

Joplin   ....  Mo.      Joplin  E.  Ry.  &  Motor  Co.   5  10 

St  Joseph   .  .  "        Union  Ry.  Co   n  34 

St.  Joseph   .  ^  "         Wyatt  Park  Ry.  Co   15  22 

Kansas  City   .   "         North  East  Ry.  Co   7  12 

Springfield  .  .   "        Metropolitan  Elec.  Ry.  Co                     7  50 

Lebanon  .  .  .  Mo.       Lebanon  Light  &  Watei  Co   i 

Hannibal    .  .   "         Hannibal  Ry.  Co   2  10 

Kansas  City  .   "         Metropolitan  St.  Ry.  Co   12  46 

Sedalia    ..."  Elec.  Ry.  Light  &  Power  Co.    .  .  .  8  20 

Fredonia  .  .  .  N.  Y.  Dunkirk  &  Fredonia  R.  R.  Co.    .  .  3  8 

Ehnira  ....     **       Elmira  &  Horsehead  Ry   14  10 

Amsterdam   .    "       Amsterdam  St.  Ry.  Co   4  9 

Hudson  ...    "      Hudson  Elec.  Ry.  Co   2  4 

Utica   ....    *'      Utica  Belt  Line  St  Ry.  Co   50 

N.  Towanda  .    "       Towanda  St  Ry.  Co   3  3  * 

Albany    ...     "       Albany  Ry   16  32 

Wat^own .  .     "       Watertown  St  Ry.  Co   3  8 

Watertown  .  .    "  Watertown  &  Brownvaie  St.  Ry.  .  .  3  8 

Glen  Falls  .  .    *'  G.  F.,  Sandy  Hill  &  Ft.  Edward  .  .  8  12 

Auburn    ...     "       Auburn  City  Ry.  Co   27  10 

Charlotte    .  .     *'        Grand  View  Beach  Ry   8  14 

Albany    ...     "  Watervleet,  Turnpike  &  R.  R.  .  .  .  7  36 

Oswego  ..."      Oswego  St  Ry   u  15 


Miles  op 


IXKATIOM 

Namb  of  Road. 

jniLES 

Tragi 

Cars. 

Saratoga  %)g 

T7*%  1_?  . 

N.  Y. 

Saratoga  Elec.  Ry.   .  . 

•  2 

riusning  .  . 

m  9 

Flushing  &  College  Pt.   .  . 

9 

Troy  .... 

%  i 

Troy  &  Langinsburg  Ry.    .  .  . 

•  •  33 

61 

Utica    .  .  . 

at 
m  % 

Utica  &  Mohawk  Ry.  ... 

14 

Jamestown  . 

Jamestown  St  Ry.  Co  

20 

Seneca  Falls 

1  < 

4 

Bmghamton 

<i 

Binghamton  St  Ry.  Co  

14 

18 

Charlotte  . 

Rochester  Elec.  Ry.  . 

21 

Asheville  . 

.  N.  C. 

Ashville  St.  Ry.  Co  

6 

II 

Raleigh   .  . 

A  —1  '11 

K 

Raleigh  St.  Ry.  Co  \ 

5 

8 

Asheville  . 

(( 

West  Asheville  &  Sulphur  Spgs.  . 

4 

2 

Winston  .  . 

<( 

Winston-Salem  Elec.  &  Ry.  Co. 

7 

9 

Charlotte  . 

(f 

Charlotte  Elec.  Ry. 

10 

Trenton  .  . 

.  N.  J. 

Trenton  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

31 

31 

Passaic    .  . 

Passaic,  Garfield  &  CUfton    .  . 

.  4 

4 

newarK  .  . 

XT  T 

.  N.  J. 

Newark  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

■  25 

Paterson  .  . 

Paterson  Ry.  Co.  . 

Atlantic  City 

Camden  &  Atlantic  R.  R.  Co. 

7 

40 

jersey  City . 

Jersey  City  &  Bergen  Ry.  . 

5 

v.<Amuen  .  . 

Camden  Horse  Ry.  Co.  . 

14 

/iSDury  rarK 

Seashore  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

4 

21 

v^oncorci  ,  . 

.  N.  H. 

Concord  St.  Ry.  Co  

9 

II 

j-/over  .  .  . 

Umon  St  Ry  

15 

riattsmoutn 

XT  1_ 

.  Neb. 

Plattsmouth  St.  Ry.  Co  

3 

2 

Lincoln    .  . 

Lincoln  City  E.  Ry.  Co  

•  15 

8 

Lincoln    .  . 

If 

Lincoln  St.  Ry.  Co  

•  37 

85 

IMorlolk    .  . 

1  f 

Norfolk  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co  

2 

Kearney  .  . 

II 

Kearney  Elec.  Co.  .  .  . 

4 

rortland  .  . 

.  Ore. 

Multnomah  St.  Rv.  Co. 

33 

Salem  .  .  . 

<< 

Capitol  City  Ry.  . 

8 

Portland 

M 

iTictropoiiian  Ky.  l-O. 

Portland  .  . 

<< 

City  &  Suburban    .  . 

18 

Portland  .  . 

(( 

Waverly  &  Woodstock  Ry. 

7 

Portland  .  . 

<( 

Badge  Ry.  Co.  . 

15 

Astoria    .  . 

<t 

Astoria  St.  Ry.  Co  

3 

8 

Newark  .  . 

.  Ohio. 

Newark  &  Granville  St.  Ry.  .  .  . 

8 

10 

Dayton    .  . 

« 

Dayton  &  Soldiers'  Home  Ry.  .  . 

.  6 

4 

Alliance  .  . 

<c 

Alliance  St.  Ry.  .  . 

3 

Columbus  . 

<( 

Glenwood  &  Green  Lawn  Ry. 

4 

12 

Salem  .  .  . 

(( 

Salem  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

3 

6 

Akron  .  .  . 

(f 

Akron  St  Ry.  Co  

35 

Columbus  . 

<< 

Columbus  Consul  St  Ry  

.  36 

88 

Youngstown 

« 

Youngstown  St  Ry  

14 

Lima    .  .  . 

Lima  St.  Ry.  Motor  &  Power  Co.  . 

4 

14 

Defiance.  .  . 

<( 

Defiance  L.  &  P.  Co  

•  3 

2 

144 


MlUBS  OP 

Location.  Name  of  Road.  Tkacx.  Cass. 


Sandusky  . 

Ohio 

7 

0 
0 

Ashtabula 

(« 

Asht;ih!il;i  RaniH  Xran  C*e\ 

4 

9 

Newark 

(f 

Newark  C\f\i  Rv  Cn 

5 

19 

Canton    .  .  , 

(1 

Canton  <^f-  Rv  Pr» 

o 
o 

19 

Piqua   .  .  . 

ff 

Pinua  C^itv  Rv 

4 

0 

Toledo 

(f 

Toledo  Flfr  St  Rv 

24 

35 

Davton 

<< 

White  T  ine  St  Rv  Co 

17 

25 

Findlav 

<< 

Findlav  St  Rv  Cn 

4 

10 

Stetibenville 

(( 

Steubenvillp  St  Rv  Cn 

2 

0 

Sminefield 

II 

Sorinp'fipld  FIpp  Rv 

5 

0 

Livmsool 

II 

Q 
0 

Q 
<> 

Mansfield 

II 

Citizens*  F1#»r 

5 

5 

Toledo    .  . 

fi 

Toledo  Con<iAUdat^«1  c:*-  i?v 

So 

49 

Hamilton 

II 

Q 

.0 

14 

mau.  v^iiy,  onen.,  ouaFavuie  .... 

lo 

4 

XJniontown 

II 

Kjiuxjuixfvwu  OL.  Xvy.   

3 

4 

(1 

30 

55 

(1 

If 

misourgn,  Aiiegneny  oc  Jnancnester 

St  Rv 

10- 

55 

Pittsburgh  .  . 

II 

Second  Av*»  Rv  Ce% 

15 

so 

Pittsbure^h 

II 

10 

20 

Pittsburgh 

II 

P   Knoxville      St  Plair  Rv 

3 

4 

Pittsbure'h 

11 

Siibiirhan  Rar»?d  T'ran  Cr* 

2 

mm 

7 

Pittsbure'h 

II 

p   Federal   St    Rr  Pl#»acanf  Vol 

42 

55 

Pittsburgh   .  . 

II 

Pittsburgh  &  Birminp'ham 

3 

3*' 

Pottsville  .  .  . 

II 

Schuvler  Pier  R  v  Co 

fi 

Reading  ,  .  . 

l( 

Neversink  Mtn  Rv  Co 

0 
0 

Reading  . 

II 

E.  Reading  Ry.  Co  

5 

Reading  .  .  . 

II 

Reading  &  S.  W.  St.  Ry  

5 

8 

Connellsville  . 

II 

Connellsville,  New  Haven  &  Leisen- 

ring  St  Ry  

5 

4 

New  Castle .  . 

II 

New  Castle  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co.    .  .  . 

2 

4 

Westchester . 

11 

West  Chester  St  Ry.  Co  

6 

5 

Du  Bois  .  .  . 

II 

Du  Bois  Trac  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

2 

3 

Williamsport . 

11 

Williamsport  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

6 

& 

Johnstown  .  . 

II 

Johnstown  Pass.  Ry.  Co.  

15 

20 

Braddock    .  . 

II 

Braddock  &  Turtle  Creek  Ry.  .  .  . 

3 

3 

Braddock    .  . 

II 

Braddock  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

4 

4 

Scranton  .  .  . 

II 

9 

a 

Lebanon  .  .  i 

II 

Lebanon  &  Annville  St.  Ry  

9 

6 

McKeesport 

II 

McKeesport  &  Reynoldton  Ry.    .  . 

5 

Wilkesbarre  , 

<< 

Wyoming  Valley  Traction  Co.  .  .  . 

Lancaster   .  . 

II 

Lane.  City  &  W.  End  St  Ry.  ... 

15 

26 

Scranton  .  .  . 

II 

People's  Ry.  Co  

27 

42 

145 


MiLRS  nw 

Location. 

> 

Name  of  Road. 

Track. 

Cars. 

orccnsDurg 

.  ra. 

Greensburg  &  Henrysville  Ry.  . 

2 

Frio 

(( 

Ene  Elec.  Motor  Co.   .  . 

31 

Shamokin 

'  II 

Shamokin  St.  Ry.  Co.  .  . 

vv  risningion 

• 

Washmgton  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co.   .  . 

•  3 

A 

/viioona  . 

f  € 

• 

City  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

6 

ra 

• 

Harrisburg  Pass.  Ry.  ,  . 

50 

<< 

>  • 

Penna.  Motor  Co  

6 

Aiientown  . 

• 

Allentown  &  Bethlehem  Rapid  Tran 

.  15 

22 

iseaver  i*  aiis 

CI 

• 

B.  Falls  Traction  Co  

■  « 

iNewport  .  . 

Newport  St.  Ry.  Co  

•  4 

23 

rroviaence  • 

• 

Union  R.  R.  Co  

7 

12 

•  lenn. 

Citizens*  Rapid  Trans.  Co.  .  . 

•  4 

5 

iNasnviiie  . 

if 

• 

V  T— .  'a.    ji  wr^\ 

United  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

•  52 

66 

Jnempnis  .  . 

• 

Citizens'  St  Ry.  Co  

•  30 

40 

mempnis .  . 

• 

City  &  Suburban  Ry.  ...... 

.  5 

T2 

\.«nananooga 

II 

Chattanooiga  &  No.  Side  Ry.  .  . 

4 

4 

cristol  .  .  . 

1  ^ 

Bristol  Belt  Line  Ry.  ... 

•  9 

II 

v^natianooga 

II 

• 

No.  Chattanooga  St.  Car  Co.  .  . 

3 

3 

KnoxviUe 

II 

• 

Knoxville  Elec  Ry.  Co.  .  .  . 

13 

30 

Chattanooga 

4 1 

Chattanooga  Elec.  Ry.  Co  

38 

33 

Johnson  City 

J.  City  &  Carnegie  St  Ry.  

3 

3 

*awiucKei 

0  T 

.  K.  I. 

Pawtucket  St.  Ry  

5 

4 

odii  /inionio 

.  Tex. 

Rapid  Trans.  St.  Ry.  Co.  

5 

3 

oan  Antonio 

.  lex. 

West  End  St  Car  Co.  .  . 

5 

5 

rort  Wortn 

Riverside  St.  Ry.  Co  

2 

3 

L*HrcQO      .  . 

Laredo  Imp.  Co.    .  . 

6 

8 

waco   .  .  . 

Citizens'  Ry.  Co  

10 

ip 

waco  ... 

Waco  El.  Ry.  &  Light  Co.   .  . 

6 

5 

/vusun  ... 

• 

Austin  Rapid  Tran.  Co  

13 

14 

oiicriiian  .  , 

<< 

• 

College  Park  Rapid  Tran.  Co.  . 

4 

5 

Dallas  .  .  . 

No.  Dallas  Circuit  Rv  Co 

3 

5 

Dallas  .  .  . 

<c 

• 

Dallas  Con.  Pass.  Ry.  Co  

23 

32 

San  Antonio 

l( 

San  Antonio  St  Ry.  Co  

30 

55 

Galveston  . 

<( 

• 

Galveston  City  Ry.  Co.  .... 

38 

34 

San  Antonio 

f  1 

• 

Alamo  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co  

8 

20 

Houston  .  . 

(f 

• 

t 

Houston  City  St  Ry.  Co  

15 

30 

Dallas  .  .  . 

«( 

• 

Dallas  Rapid  Tran.  Co.  .  .  . 

13 

9 

Fort  Worth 

<( 

No.  Side  Ry.  Co  

12 

IS 

Fort  Worth 

Ft.  W.  &  ArUngton  Heights  Ry.  .  . 

6 

7 

Ogden  .  .  .  , 

.Utah 

Ogden  City  St.  Ry.  Co  

10 

20 

Salt  Lake  . 

<< 

• 

Salt  Lake  City  Ry.  . 

28 

5a 

Salt  Lake  . 

(1 

> 

Salt  Lake  Rapid  Tran.  Co.  .  . 

26 

32 

Richmond  .  . 

Va. 

Richmond  Ry.  &  Elect  Co. 

41 

73 

Richmond-.  . 

Richmond  &  Manchester  Ry. 

5 

10 

Hampton    .  , 

« 

1 

Hampton  &  Old  Pt  Ry.  Co.  ,  .  . 

18 

14 

146 


y  Miles  of 

tOCATiON.                             Name  of  Road.                          Tback,  Cams 

Danville.  .  .  Va.       Danville  St.  Car  Co                            2  4 

Lynchburg .  .  "        Rivermont  Co                       .  !  !     3  4 

Anacortes  .  .  Wash.   Fldalgo  &  Anacortas  Ry.  .  .  .  .  .    la  4 

Whatcom    .  ,    "       Bellingham  Bay  Elec.  St.  Ry.   .  !  .      3  7 

Tacoma  ...    "      Tacoma  Ry.  &  Motor  Co                  23  26 

New  Whatcom    "       Bellingham  Elec.  St.  Ry                    4  4 

Tacoma  ...    "      Tacoma  &  Steilacoom  Ry  13  7 

Spokane  ...    "      Arlington  Heights  Ry.  Co                   2  i 

Spokane  ...    •«       Ross  Park  St.  Ry.  Co                         4  7 

Spokane  ...    "       City  Park  Tran.  Co                            7  5 

Ft.  Townsend,  Wash.   Pt.  Townsend  St  Ry.  Co                   4  3 

Seattle.  ...     "       Union  Trunk  Line  .  .                         13  16 

Seattle  ....     "       Rainier  Power  &  Ry.  Co                     2  3 

Seattle  ....     "       Green  Lake  E.  Ry.  Co                        4  a 

Seattle  ....     "       West  St.  &  No.  End  Ry.  Co.    .  .  .      6  14 

Seattle  ....     "       Seattle  Con.  St.  Ry.  Co  22  48 

Huntington   .  W.  Va.  Huntington  E.  L.  &  St  Ry.  Co.  .  .      3  14 

Wheeling    .  .      "      Citizens'  Ry.  Co   j© 

"          •  .      "      Wheeling  Ry.  Co  12  25 

Martinsburg  .      "      Martinsburg  St.  Ry.  Co                        3  3 

Marinette   .  .  Wis.      Marinette  Gas  E.  L.  &  Ry                    4  5 

Milwaukee.  .    "       Milwaukee  Elec.  Ry.  Co.                    19  22 

Eau  Cfaiire  .  .    "       Eau  Claire  St.  Ry.  L.  &  P.  Co.  .  .  .      9  17 

W.  Superior  .    "       Douglass  Co.  St.  Ry                           9  22 

Milwaukee..    "       West  Side  Elec.  Ry                          12  80 

Merrill.  ...    "       Merrill  Ry.  &  Light  Co                      5  3 

Appleton   .  .    "       Appleton  Edison  Elec,  Co                  7  8 

Vancouver  .  .  B.  C.     Vancouver  E.  Ry.  &  Light  Co.  .  .  .    10  10 

Victoria  ...    "       National  Elec.  Tramway                    15  17 

Windsor.  .  .    "       Sandwitdi,  Windsor  &  Amhurstburg 

Ry  .  Co.  .                                      6  12 

Winnipeg  .  .Can.     Winnipeg  St  Ry.  Co                         4  ,0 

Ottawa   ..."       Ottawa  Elec.  St  Ry.  Co                   12  16 

'^^^^^  4o6aj|  7181 

Baltimore  Councils  have  just  granted  the  privilege  to  con- 
struct the  trolley  system  on  the  railways  of  that  city. 


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This  book  Is  due  on  the  date  indicated  below,  or  at  the 
expiration  of  a  definite  period  after  the  date  of  borrowing,  as 
provided  by  the  library  rules  or  by  spec^  arrangement  with 
the  Librarian  in  charge. 


OATK  BORROWCO 

OATK  DUE 

DATE  BORROWCO 

DATE  DUE 



CM  (t149)  HMMi 

1  HKAA 

1           '               ■  — - — —  -fk^t^ —  

1          Trolley  System.  Stenographic 
Report  of  Testimony  of  Experts,  etc 
Philadelphia  Traction  Company  Applii 

cation  i 

0  Apply  the  Trolley  Systenf 



COLUMBIA  yNIVERSITY  LIBRARIES 


II 


0044268602 


JUN    2  1950 


